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SeaScapeII
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/23/2007 : 23:15:03

I am new to buying sails. I am going to buy a new main for my 1985 C-25 SK. I need some advice on companies to look at. Also loose foot, standard foot or shelf foot which is best? What OZ cloth? I race for fun with our local club and try to get to California a couple times a year. Any help would be great.

SeaScapeII
1985 C25,SK,STD RIG,#4720
http://www.arizonayachtclub.org

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1773 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 13:11:26

Ullman Ventura (CA) would be my first stop. Gary is very helpful and as he supplies the sails for Catalina Direct, he is one of the most knowledgable about Catalina boats. Others sail lofts would include Atlantic Sail and National Sail -- both in Florida. All can handle mail order and all are reputable. That being said, I live in CT and used Ullman Venturea and have been very happy.

All the best,

Peter

Edited by - on

pegasus
1st Mate

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USA
65 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 13:14:57

Waters Sails in Lexington, SC (803) 957-5638 is cutting me a new main. You might want to call him for a quote and some ideas on what to look for in a sail.

Edited by - on

gop711
1st Mate

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Armenia
83 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 13:52:14

I purchased a loose footed main from Gary at Ullman about two months ago for my C25 TR.

I like the sail a lot. The workmanship was great as was the service. In fact I bought a 135 earlier from them.

Gop

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 14:12:10

I also bought a main and 135 from Gary at Ullman Ventura, 1-800-248-2892

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 15:58:33

We use Waters Sails for racing our C-22. Main is loose-footed. Excellent sails, but they seem to be better suited for mostly light air inland lake environments. On the C-22's, North and Gus sails seem to fair better in heavier air.

Edited by - on

John Bixby
Navigator

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118 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 16:40:49

I used FX sails, very happy, choice of full or partial battens any
combination, aluminum headboard, loose footed or bolt rope, cunningham and more
check our their website www.fxsails.com
john on ms achsa

Edited by - on

brrit
1st Mate

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80 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 17:13:45

I've heard great things about Gus sails.

Edited by - on

Dustysailz
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2007 : 07:31:44

I might add to the above only as a new mains'l was recently purchased from Gary Swenson, Ullman Sails, Ventura CA. I had price and option shopped on the internet prior to emailing and speaking with him. What I purchased from him was a 6.0 oz Dacron sail, with cunningham, one reef point, foot loose, 2 on 2 (battens-top 2 are full, bottom 2 are partial to allow for the proper shape of the sail in light wind), draft stripe, insignia and numbers for less than $800. Since installing it on the boat, it's like finding a 6th gear which I never knew existed. The boat is faster and i can point 3-5 degrees higher. Coupled iwth a new boom vang from Catalina direct, it was the best purchase made (for performance) since owning the boat. I hope the prior owner appreciates my care of his former boat!

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2007 : 08:22:27

Personally,

I would go with a Doyle, a North, or some other well known brand. They practically have the sails on the shelf, AND their quality is very good because they have to be... If you have multiple lofts all over the world, do you think you'll create a better product? Possibly... I am all for the little guy except here...

Sten

PO Zephyr C25 FK SR #3220
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - www.svlysistrata.com

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2007 : 10:18:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 Personally,

I would go with a Doyle, a North, or some other well known brand.

Sten

PO Zephyr C25 FK SR #3220
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - www.svlysistrata.com
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree, http://www.ullmansails.com/
http://ullmanventura.com/fallsale.htm

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 08/27/2007 10:39:21

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2007 : 12:19:55

When I needed a new 135 - Doyle had me back on the wawa in 4 days in the middle of summer out of their Marblehead MA location! That's service and the sail was everything I wanted and then some. Extra spreader patches (because they knew where to put them) and the foam strip for reefed performance...

Sten

PO Zephyr C25 FK SR #3220
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - www.svlysistrata.com

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3439 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2007 : 12:33:35

I am also considering buying a new main sail and a new furling rig (CDI) jib (to replace my 110 jib/Genoa). So, the above info very helpful 9as well as posts in the past on same subject.

1) I was wondering even though these sails are sort of "off the shelf" with the Catalina being a common sailboat, is there any concern in getting the right sails for the specific configuration needed. For example, I have an '89 Tall Rig which has the boom mounted to the mast in a fixed location. Also, the furling rig I have is a CDI 4 or 6 (I have to check). Other than providing the info above and perhaps some specific such as what to order (ie. 2 full battens and 2 partial) any other info needed to ensure the right sails are ordered ?

2) Curious as to how many out there still using the original sails ?

I have 3 original sails. Have only used the Main and jib. I have yet to replace the jib with the 150 genoa I also received from the PO. It looks like the 150 Genoa had little use.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2007 : 14:07:19

CDI recommends using strapping instead of cringles at the tack and foot so the plastic foil does not get damaged from the metal cringles; #6 luff tape, my full hoist sail has a luff, (including straps) that is 2' shorter than the forestay, that allows for the CDI FF4 (get the bearing upgrade).
The foot of the main is not critical but the luff is, with an 89 TR, (rare), it would probably behoove you to take a long tape measure and simply measure the hoist to be sure. I have always loved my full batten mains, to me what little sail shape you may gain with a combo sail does not justify the losing the ease of handling a full batten main. Those lower battens hold the sail on the boom when you drop your sail, I love it. Honestly, now that I have a bimini I cannot imaging trying to drop a main without full battens, reaching around the bimini is hard to do.
As for original sails, I ordered a new main within a week of getting my first Catalina 25, later I learned the headsail is more important!

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3439 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2007 : 18:32:56

Frank,

Thanks for the info on what CDI recommends.

Since I bought the boat in Fall '05, I have sailed year round since then and often - seems like on average 3 times a week but much less in the winter months. While the sails are past being old.....still get me where I want to go and at decent speeds. But they need replacement and now the jib is getting downright ratty and both sails losing threads. I do not want to invest in getting these reconditioned - I am just going to go for new ones. Probably Ullman.

Need to save some dough and if i do not procrastinate on this...hope to order in late Fall.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 08:26:13

I just got my new ($700) 150 Genny in the mail from Cruising Direct and am totally happy with it. Seems to be very nicely done. Got out last Saturday and raised it for the first time, sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

Edited by - DaveR on 08/30/2007 08:12:08

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 08:45:29

You look like you have great headroom on your boat. I have never heard a bad report on Cruising Direct sails.

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 09:55:51

I also recommend the Cruising Direct sails. I bought a genoa 130 a year and a half ago and have been very happy with it. I shopped around and did my research. My local North Sails loft in Annapolis even told me to use CD for our Catalina 25s because you are getting the same sail that they would make. The difference is they would come to your boat and make measurements and make a custom sail for you. She told me that our boats are so popular (known dimensions) that they are made overseas with the exact same materials and quality, just at a lower price.

Edited by - on

SeaScapeII
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 21:12:10

Thanks for all the comments I talked to Gary at Ullman and he directed me to the 756.00 full batten, loose foot offshore Ullman that Catalina Direct sells. The 6.5 oz cloth seams a bit heavy but I guess it will hold up longer. I wonder how it will perform in lighter winds with 6.5 oz cloth and full battens. How about down wind performance?

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2007 : 21:53:49

can you post some pictures of it once you get it on the boat. This winter I am buying their furling 150 to replace my badly worn one. I am thinking i will be doing the main in a few years. Would also like to hear your feedback on the loose foot and would like to see pics of it.

Edited by - on

SeaScapeII
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2007 : 18:09:20

Ya Chris when I decide on which sail I want for sure(still mixed between the 2+2 or full batten) which should be beginning of next week I will get pictures and post some time near the end of September. Still to hot here to get out much we wait until mid October to do much sailing.

Edited by - on

Dustysailz
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 15:31:21

I an only share with you what I learned when shopping for a new mains'l. I was interested in the loose foot which had been understood to be the "latest technology". It seems that in areas of increased wind similar to San Francisco Bay area where the wind always pipes: a full batten sail would be called for. In an area like upper Narragansett Bay (where most of my sailing is done) and the wind can be calm, real calm; a 2x2 will be better as the sail will have better shape in a lighter wind. I had expressed concern regarding the weight which was 6.5 (not the previously stated 6.0), but as the sail is held in place by the mast and boom it is of little concern as I sail in a variety of conditions. The choice between full batten and 2x2 is a matter of typical wind conditions.
I can tell you that I sail on my friends 27 Sea Sprite in club races and he has a full batten main which is not always properly shaped.
As for downwind sailing with a loose footed main, the booms all the way out and its not really going to make any difference. In lighter winds though you might want to ease the outhaul to fill the sail. On a closing note, I had thought that the draft stripe was a fancy item not really needed, but it really helps when determining the sails proper shape. Good luck and good sailing.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 17:40:03

Sam I agree with everything you said. This is my experience.

I really like the sail handling characteristics of a full batten main.
I like how easy it is to gather up and stack on the boom, one sail-tie or bungy and several feet of sail bundle is secured to the boom; very nice all the time and very very nice in high Kansas wind. I hoist when I clear my marina jetty, pretty much regardless of wind direction, often at beam or below. When hoisting off the wind a full batten sail is easy to toss over to the weather side of the boom, which allows you to feed the sail and keep the top batten from catching under the aft lower shroud. They drop nicely and quick. I store mine in a sausage bag over the winter and the full battens make that a little easier.
I also like the sailing characteristics of the full batten main.
In high wind I like that I have never seen a leach flutter on a full batten sail and they luff more gently; with less disturbance from the backwinding at the luff. The battens break up the wrinkle patterns at the mast which cleans up the air flow for reattachment. A full batten main does not flog. In light air I like being able to have a full foil out there without calling "everyone to leeward". The full battens hold a given sail shape over the widest range of air, that given shape being determined by the batten tension. A full batten main should be shaped for the predominant air and if that is done I think it will do a good job over a wide range of local sailing.
The loose foot has been a revelation to me as I came back into sailing. I do miss sitting on a boom with a boltrope shelf foot; I think I have even changed diapers there. But the sail shape of a loose foot main is so much better. The improvement to the uniformity of the chord depth is terrific. It almost eliminates the turbulation caused by a closed foot and boom as they disturb the airflow. And I swear, (OK, so not swear, but really think), that gybes are more gentle as air escapes out the foot. The outhaul requirements are much simpler and the foot tension reacts to the outhaul in a more uniform way. With a boltrope you need to over compensate then readjust to get the tension even along the boom, with a loose footed main you simply set the clew where you want it and the sail shape is there. (I also love the safety of always being able to grasp the boom.)
I am so sold on the full batten/ loose footed main that I wonder why there is no batten on the foot, like many catamarans.
Your Milage May Vary

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 17:49:18

I sailed yesterday after work, in very light air, in a club fun race on a friend's Capri 26 with a loose-footed main and 150 furling genoa, both from CD. Felt like the heavier fabric (his boat came from Calif.) They performed very nicely, held good shape.

Edited by - on

SeaScapeII
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 19:25:10

Franks Thanks that was very helpful I was leaning in the direction of full battens and loose foot. You just tipped me that direction. We Sail on a lake here just north of Phoenix. we have a variety of conditions from 15-20 kts.wind with gusts to 30kts. Other days we are lucky to to be moving at all. It sounds like the full battens would be ideal for both considering the every thing you said. I saw you web pics is that a Ullman main? Looks Good and nice pics!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 20:45:02

It sounds like your sailing is similar to mine. On the '89 I have an Ullman main and headsail.

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