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Waterballast Casing mod.

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britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/09/2007 : 21:37:54

Latest project: improve the seal in the waterballast valve casing.

Previously I had added a rubber and plastic washer to go between the butterfly handle and the valve casing, hoping to reduce the leakage out of the top of the ballast. That worked, but with a slight leak. So I decided to try and improve on the original casing top.
<center>
Here's a pic of the original casing top with the butterfly handle
removed and the valve stem dropped out the bottom (nearly)

As you can see, the original hole was rough drilled, not pretty.

First thing I did was clean up the area with acetone
and gave it a rub down with glass paper.

Next I marked up with permanent marker the center lines of the original hole.

Next, I used a cutting edge drill to widen the hole, my intent
was to seal it and re-drill to the correct size after adding a
hockey puck to the top of the casing

Then I cleaned up the hole with a sanding drum.

Made a cone by cutting the top and bottom of a classic coke
waxed paper cup. This was to be the form for the hockey puck.

Had to put a seal on the underside of the hole to minimise
resin run out, used a piece of cardboard on a twist tie.

Then fixed it in place using a kabob stick.

Made up a resin mix and poured in enough to cover the
base of the mold, added some glass strands, more resin, more
glass, more resin, repeated till I got about 1/2" depth to
the hockey puck.

Let it set and started the mold removal process.

Cleaned of the waxed paper cup using a mini drum sander on
portable drill, filed the top flat.

Drilled the hole and painted it all with Krylon spray paint.

</center>

Ok, it looks good, but now I have a problem! The new casing top
including the hockey puck is about 3/4" thick. It turns out that
the original hole was drilled way off the center-line, so the
valve stem will not go up through the new hole. I measured the
stem, it's 1/2" and the new hole was drilled with a 1/2" drill
with a bit of wiggle room. The stem will enter the lower end of
the hole, but it will not pass through it. I used a flash light
to view down the hole, and I can see the stem is angled
towards 5-o-clock (12 is at the bow). I either have to enlarge
the hole or remove the puck and make a new one about an inch
towards 5-o-clock.

Grrrrr!

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2007 : 22:48:54

Very well documented Paul. I have not noticed leakage on mine. Maybe the seas are rougher in your parts and the sway motion causes presure and leakage?

I can see where you're going with this project. I imagine you will use a nice large rubber washer with a stainless washer on top then compress with the butterfly handle?

Very sorry to hear that the original hole was drill off center line. What a bummer. I vote for taking the puck out, fill in the hole and do it right so you never have to worry about it again.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/09/2007 22:54:24

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2007 : 23:47:50

Paul, nice. It looks like professional work! Gotta agree with Steve. Do it over and you'll feel better when its all done.

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2007 : 01:01:03

Paul,
I had the same problem and did a slightly different mod.
I noticed the centerboard trunk is on center, but the ballast tank through-hull is to starboard.
The through-hull is also aft of the hole under the stairs.
This is the 5-o'clock position you mentioned.

Another issue is the ballast valve only opens about 1 inch (maybe 1-1/2").
So the thicker the fix, the longer the tank will take to fill.

My thinking is it leaks because the hole is roughly drilled and the top of the tank is rounded.

Epoxy and 2" stainless washer

My solution was to epoxy a 2" stainless washer to the top of the tank.
The washer makes a flat surface and the epoxy fills the rounded tank.
I used the epoxy with the shaft installed and fully raised.
This fixed the alignment issue, but I had to be careful not to get epoxy on the threads.
Once the epoxy was setup but still tacky, I slid the washer down the shaft and tightened the bolt.
After about an hour, I tried to remove the bolt, but it was glued.
It took a wrench to remove the nut.

My plan was to use 2" rubber washers and a 2" stainless washer on top, but the 5-o'clock angle caused them to not line up.

I used the original 1" stainless washer and 4 rubber washer instead.
I just returned from "sea trials" and there was no leak.

I hope this help you in your project.
Russ (#793)

Tank with new rubber washers installed

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2007 : 07:18:02

Thanks Steve, Randy, Russ.
Russ, seems we have the same issue. Like your solution, although I prefer the hockey puck rather than the steel. But your method is practical. You know I'm going to have some fun removing the puck! (not a lot of room in there for a sawzall)

So now my plan is to remove the puck and make a much bigger hole, put the valve in place and locate the correct center for the hole, then make a new puck which will cover the larger hole. I'll bung up the gap between the casing and the tank around the base of the step with rags as this time around there will be a lot more debris. Hopefully Frank will view this and make a change to the design.

Oh, and I'll have to make sure there is room for the butterfly to fly

Paul

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2007 : 12:11:04

Paul, use a hole saw.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2007 : 13:04:10

Any thoughts to putting a brass/bronze bushing over/around the valve rod then put it all back together before you re glass the puck in. ACE hardware has all sizes of the bronze bushings, bet they would have one to fit the valve rod. Then you would have no wear in your glass over time. Just a thought from a WK guy.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2007 : 13:08:47

Couldn't you use a boat drain plug in the hole?

They kept our runabouts from sinking, that's if you remembered to put the plug in before lowering the boat from the hoist.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2007 : 13:11:49

Good point Tom. I have to remove the stbd keel guide on the trailer in order to drop the valve fully (currently it is resting on the stbd keel guide and there is not enough wiggle room to get it out.

Next trip is a week Friday to John PenneKamp State Park, we get there in advance of the mini lobster season. I hope to get the brunt of the valve work done this evening - but you never know when something crops up to put a delay in things

Paul

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2007 : 15:55:09

Paul, I would greatly consider Russ's approach. Although the puck idea looks really good, structurally speaking I see no advantage over Russ's embedded stainless washer. Russ has the advantage of keeping things lower, hence leaving more room for the valve (faster discharges and fill-ups).

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2007 : 17:19:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Next trip is a week Friday to John PenneKamp State Park, we get there in advance of the mini lobster season. I hope to get the brunt of the valve work done this evening - but you never know when something crops up to put a delay in things

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Work takes me to south Florida all next week, I'll be driving around burning tanks of gas in Ft.Myers, Naples, Miami, Pompano Beach(your stomping grounds), West Palm Beach, Ft Pierce, got to love the road!

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2007 : 19:14:48

Steve, the rate of fill and drain are not relly an issue. When launching the boat we typically have a while alongside before heading out, plenty of time for the ballast to fill. When retrieving, we either blow the ballast while I go get the truck and trailer or we let it drain as we pull out. Those few minutes waiting for the drain to complete are spent checking that all is secure and ready to haul out to the staging area.

Don ... I cracked up on that idea!

Tom, give me a call when you are in the area, perhaps do lunch.

Now, where's that sawzall!

paul

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
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1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2007 : 17:04:09

I'd like to pass an idea by you guys. The way I see it either Paul's or Russ's modification can leak. Wouldn't water just seep out in between the rubber washers and shaft? I imagine the rubber washers need to be real tight around the shaft and putting in 4 really helps. I don't particularly want to overdo it, but had this idea that I think merits consideration:

What if you would take a large enough ABS tube and cut in in a way that it would fit the irregular floor and completely enclose the valve itself? The red line roughly shows where the ABS tube would lie. You would add fiberglass all around it making sure water is contained there. Then you add one of those ABS screw on end fittings. This way even if the valve leaks the water will stay in this chamber making it 100% safe even under presure. Unscrew the end fitting to access the valve to turn it in or out.

What do you think?

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/18/2007 17:07:21

Steve Blackburn
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1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2007 : 20:55:28

Tonight went to home depot and bought two 1" washers and three 1" rubber washers and marine epoxy. The rubber washers are smaller than the 1/2" stem and will fit very snuggly. Once this is sandwiched it will not leak at all.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/18/2007 20:56:00

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2007 : 21:53:07

Update:
I reworked the whole thing....
<center>

1) I drilled into the hockey puck to get rid of most of the material.

2)Dremmeled off the rest.

3)Marked out and then drilled the corners of area to remove (overdid it a bit!)

4)Out came the Sazwall

5) After cutting out the area, and marking out the position
of the valve rod (wedged the valve up from underneath) I
realized that it was only about 1/2" off center. Oh well!

Formed the new top the same way as the hockey puck.

6)Cleaned up, drilled hole, checked valve now fit correctly
and closed nice and tight. Installed the steel washer on a
bed of marine tex and positioned it by gently winding down the butterfly handle.
</center>
When proofed, cleaned up with acetone, and gave it a coat of krylon.

When the paint dries I'll put the neoprene washer in place and the second steel washer and finally the butterfly handle.

Notes: This setup still leaves over an inch of valve opening. I could have made a much smaller hole, the position of the valve stem was very misleading, it was much closer to the correct position than I thought originally.

Went to WM for some neoprene to use as the seal, couldn't find any even with store help. Then I looked on their $2, $5 and $10 sale tables. They had a neoprene sunvisor, that'll make 4 or 5 of the seals! (and was on the $2.00 table!)
(Also picked up a celestial navigation quick ref chart $2.00 and an encyclopedia of sailing: $2.00. but best of all was a Mooring helper, just too clever and only $10.)

Paul.

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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836 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2007 : 22:55:33

Paul,
That is an amazing job to fix the leak.
Russ

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2007 : 23:20:28

Nice re-work Paul.

I always browse through WM's clearance table too, you never know what you might find. Found a can of VC17m there once (actually three cans but one was red, another was something else, and then the one I wanted) for $22. Not too bad.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2007 : 20:56:08

Russ, 'yep' if I could have figured the actual position of the valve stem when the valve was fully closed, I could have just made the puck a bit bigger, snag was the hump is in the way.

Keep playing with the mooring buddy, that is just plain clever, simple, but clever. So far I have moored to the kitchen table, several chairs, the lifelines and a spare line. Da Beez Neeze!

Paul

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2007 : 17:10:40

Paul,
Did you ever find out why your keel was so stiff to pull up?

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2007 : 16:52:58

Tom, we took JD down to John Pennekamp state park this weekend, and still have the grunt, groan, creak, heave, sweat, swear, you hold this while I pull on this, thing.

Sorry - short answer = 'no!

Paul

Edited by - on

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