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Rudder Problem

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jlannutti
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USA
102 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/02/2007 : 18:13:29

I am in need of a little help.
I noticed that my rudder had a wobble in it. Closer investigation shows that the lower pin/pintle/hinge (not sure of correct terminology) has quite a bit of play. I removed the rudder to find that the play is in the pin, not the bracket on the boat. I was not able to remove the nut at the top of the pin by holding the lower part of the pin with vise grips and using a wrench. The pin would just spin...Vise grips and wrench were the only tools available to me at the dock.
I suspect that the play is from the cast aluminum through which the pin passes being worn although I guess it is possible, although not probable, that the pin is worn.
1. Does Catalina, or anyone else for that matter, make a bushing or other repair product to correct this?
2, What is the best way to get the nut off the top of the pin? If I cut the pin with a Dremel Tool and the problem lies with the cast aluminum piece can I get a replacement pin?
2. Has anyone else had this problem?

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2007 : 18:52:41

Joe,
Is this the [url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=254"]part[/url] your looking for?

Catalina Direct also sells the Gudgeons too.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 07/02/2007 18:53:00

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2007 : 20:43:28

Joe,

The pintle is likely ok if you can get it off without damage. It is very hard so you probably won't damage it much with vice grips but you should note that there is provision for a hex wrench through the nut. Find the appropriate hex wrench, heat the nut thirty seconds with a propane torch and it should come off fairly easy. Actually that is the easy part. The rudder head will need drilled to return the hole to round and make room for bushing material.

There are two ways to go here. The simplest is to use some brass shim stock and form an almost circle to shim the pin hole tight. Use old scissors to cut the shim stock. The harder method and I'd not suggest this for any but a good machinist is to make a brass bushing but to do so almost requires drilling the hole large enough to possibly weaken the aluminum casting in that area.

I used the shim stock method and have had no problems since the repair.

You will not want to drill the hole much larger...just enough to round it back up and provide room for the shim stock. Resist all temptation to pound the pintle back into the new hole as to do so can fracture and weaken the rudder head casting at the pintle boss. Instead of driving it back in with the shim around it, use a large C clamp or a press.

If feeling timid... have it done by a machinist but stress to them to be cautious about the rudder head boss as there have been noted failures of these bosses.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 07/03/2007 06:26:02

jlannutti
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102 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2007 : 07:29:48

Tom & Arlyn,
Thanks you for the speedy replies. I will head to the boat this morning to check pintle size. I believe I have 4 bolts which would make mine 3/8" but I do need to check. Gracie is a '98, # 360.
Arlyn, where do you think I can find the shim stock you referred to. Also, does it come in different thicknesses? I Although the pintle seems to have lots of play I'll bet that it will take a very thin piece of shim to correct the problem
When making my shim, as I understand your post, I'll wrap the shim around the pin and then press it into place. Is this correct?
Once I find the shim stock I'll let you know how things go.
Again, thank you both for the help.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2007 : 13:15:46

Brass shim stock can be found at any machinist supply and probably most welding supply. It is not very expensive (or wasn't when I bought a supply about twenty years ago)

so once there, buy about three different thickness and they will serve you for years for various projects. I'd get 5-10-15 thousands or whatever they have that is close.

I'd form the stock around the pin... but insert it into the hole prior to the pin leaving a shoulder out of the hole to keep it from pushing through... but you might experiment.

Edited by - on

jlannutti
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102 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2007 : 16:17:55

I stopped in a local machine shop in the neighborhood and asked where I might purchase brass shim stock. The man gave me a piece and refused any payment. It was not packaged in any way so there's no telling how thick it is. I think I could cut it easily with a larger pair of scissors...the scissors may never be the same again. Hopefully it is not too thick. I'm going to give it a try later this week as we have a pretty full holiday schedule for the next couple of days. Hopefully it will be a quick repair if I can get that pin out without damaging it. If I need to order a pin I could be out of commission for a week or more. One more thing, Is there anything to be concerned about regarding the different metals. I'll be wrapping a steel pin in brass and stuffing it into an aluminum hole?

Edited by - on

jlannutti
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USA
102 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2007 : 06:20:30

Arlyn & Tom,
Repair to rudder went smoothly. I took the whole unit home where I had more room to work. The last few threads of pintle and the recessed hex area were badly damaged. It looks as though Gracie's previous owner may have tried to get it off but gave up. Getting the old nut off went pretty easily. I went past those damaged threads very slowly hoping the nut might help to straighten them out some...it didn't. The shim stock that the fellow at the machine shop so graciously gave me turned out to be just the right thickness. I cut it with aviation shears. Due to those damaged threads I was unable to get the nut back on the pintle threads. I had to hacksaw the very end of the threaded portion of the pintle off to thet rid of those jagged threads, the nut then went on easily.
It is a little short now, the threaded portion does not quite reach the top of the nut...about 1 thread short. I put a drop of loctite on it to make sure it does not back off until the new pintle, which I ordered last night, arrives. For $17 the piece of mind of having the right part is priceless.
Thank you both you your input!

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2007 : 08:50:01

Joe, Glad it all worker out for you. CD's shipping is pretty quick, you'll have that pintle in no time.

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