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serlo
Deckhand

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United Kingdom
3 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/01/2007 : 05:56:59

I am thinking of buying a centreboard water ballasted C250 and wonder at its suitability for my local waters in the Channel Islands near France and Normandy/Brittany Coasts. We have strong tides and currents. How would she cope with force 4/5 winds obviously reefed when necessary? The reason for trailability and no fixed keel is ability to explore the French canals. Please advise.

Steve Searle

Guernsey Donkey

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2007 : 07:10:30

Steve, welcome to forum and what a great plan to explore France via the canals.

Being (BritInUSA) from the UK, I know the waters off Normandy/Brittany are not the freindliest to sailing boats, it gets pretty chopy at times. Many on the forum will pipe in with even Lake sailing seeing similar conditions.

The Trailablity of the boat and swing keel is certainly the key to expanding the adventure area. We just recently tailed the boat 650 miles from South Florida up to the Florida Panhandle for the BEER cruise, that would have taken over a week to get there had we had to sail around the Florida Bay or (if possible due to low water levels) through the east-west cut.

I can imagine all the great places you'll visit onboard. If you have to get a pocket cruiser for your adventures, then I would heartly recommend the C250.

Back to the Channel Islands, winter is pretty brutal around the Islands, I didn't enjoy being on a Royal Navy Destroyer in those conditions in those areas, so timing is everything.

What types of boats do you see coming and going in your local harbors? Not the ones that get moldy on the rope, but the sailboats that visit? Most likely they are larger vessels, understandably. Are you on the Islands, would you plan on taking the boat to the mainlands via Ferry?

Again, welcome to the forum, probably the most visited sailing forum of any single size sailboat out there.

paul

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2007 : 07:32:43

Welcome to the forum.

Let me recommend a series of thread that have been written by one of our members. Henk and Johanna have been travelling and chronicling their adventures with their C250 WB. Here's a link to their most recent installment. It relates travelling through a major canal system in Canada.

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15619&SearchTerms=henk

Use the search function above to find other contributions to this thread. Search on "Henk"

Again, welcom to the forum.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2007 : 07:51:53

Steve, as a followup: I chartered 'British Steel' (it was then named British Army) while I was in the Royal Navy, sometime around 1980, and we sailed it to the Channel Isle and then onto Saint-Malo. That was an Ocean cruiser/racer, it had made a circumnavigation if my facts are correct. I'm guessing you are about 40 miles from the mainland, that would be an 8 hour trip in decent weather. The beaches along that edge of France are incredible, but where would you access the canal system if you sailed over.?

Obviously got your passport

Paul

Edited by - britinusa on 07/01/2007 07:53:38

serlo
Deckhand

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United Kingdom
3 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2007 : 08:45:20

Thanks for that I guess the weather on the lakes can be akin to the Channel Islands. I wouldn't necessarily set off in a force 5 but may have to cope if one arose. I often see RN frigates doing navigating exercises off the island you certainly have to know the difference between the green and blue bits on the charts.

Has anyone ever had any problems with stability with water ballasted C250?

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2007 : 11:25:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Has anyone ever had any problems with stability with water ballasted C250?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Steve, we have been impressed by the stability. The only time we experienced any period of being unstable was when we got hit by a squal while the boat was under Jib only, but even then I didn't feel concerned at the time.

Paul

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2007 : 14:55:44

Steve,

I'm very much a novice sailor and have the wing keel version so my opinion is likely worth very, very little. I would certainly defer to Paul, who has sailed a WB and has sailed in your home waters.

Having said that, much of what I've read in this forum and the limited experience I have makes me think that the C250 WB might not be the best boat for your application. While it would be great for the canals it would probably not be as good as a motorboat (

Wow, did I really say that???) However, as I mentioned above, Henk and Johanna seem to thoroughly enjoy their excursions on their WB.

Both the keel version and the water ballasted version have been described on this forum as a "light wind boat" That doesn't seem to be consistent with sailing in the channel. I think a lot would depend on your level of sailing experience. Paul, and others, if I have mis-read that, please correct me here.

So, I guess what I'm saying is I don't think that the C250 WB is the right boat for your application. I don't really now what boat might be the right one. And that takes nothing away from what I think is a terrific boat! I wonder if you're not asking too much of it to be shallow draft and sea worthy to the extent you require.

Others on this forum may be able to make a convincing argument, however. Particularly the San Francisco Bay sailors.

Edited by - John Russell on 07/01/2007 14:58:09

britinusa
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Response Posted - 07/02/2007 : 06:48:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Others on this forum may be able to make a convincing argument, however. Particularly the San Francisco Bay sailors.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Concurred!

Paul

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2007 : 12:50:52

John's signature says "Don't postpone joy!" I'll add "Don't invite terror." I'm not sure either the Great Lakes (no tides) or SF Bay (short fetch) in the US compare to the English Channel. From what I've heard and read about wind-against-tide conditions on those waters, I'd have to suspect the C-250 (WB or WK) is not the boat. Not that it couldn't handle some of that, but you'll likely find yourself wishing you'd picked something heavier with a longer (not necessarily deeper) keel.

How shallow does your draft need to be for your canal journeys?

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
843 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2007 : 21:06:47

Steve,

I sail San Francisco Bay and I routinely get pushed around by high winds and strong currents.
At no point do I feel in danger or fear a knockdown.
I also don't use a spinnaker (seen too many knockdowns) or sail near the Golden Gate bridge.

With that in mind, round-ups and round-downs due occur.
They take practice and you need to be prepared for them.
In tough conditions, I would feel better in a bigger boat, but I'm still sailing.

The biggest question is how does your family feel about sailing?
If they don't feel safe, they will wonder how safe you will be!

Here's a link to the Catalina Yachts -> [url="http://www.catalinayachts.com/certif.cfm"]Certifications page.[/url]

Here's a link to a previous post -> [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12995"]How much is too much[/url]

The C250 Water-Ballast and Winged-Keel are in "Design Category-C"
Rated as "Inshore"
up to and including Beaufort Scale 6 (22-27 knots)
up to and including Significant Wave Height 2 meters (6.5 feet)
INSHORE: Designed for voyages in coastal waters, large bays, estuaries, lakes, rivers and canals.

I don't want to scare you or give you false confidence.
I just want to give some facts for your own decision.
Thanks, Russ (C250WB #793)

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2007 : 21:39:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Russ.Johnson
 I sail San Francisco Bay and I routinely get pushed around by high winds and strong currents.
At no point do I feel in danger or fear a knockdown...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The English Channel is an open extension of the North Atlantic, with stronger than average currents often going against some major seas. Thus Paul's comment about the destroyer. SF Bay has plenty of wind and current, but the sea-states are different.

I agree that the certifications page is essentially on the mark... I've been out in a little over 30 knots in what I suspect were 5-6' short seas in a fin-keeled C-25, a heavier boat than the C-250, and while the boat was probably OK, we were not having fun. We gave up on getting home and found refuge for the night. How much you can take is at least as much a part of the issue as how much the boat can take. We definitely gave up before Passage did.

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
843 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2007 : 00:24:31

Dave,
I agree with you.
If I get pushed around in SF Bay then the English Channel would be worse.
If you asked my opinion of taking a "In-Shore" boat on the English Channel,
I'd say "You're Nuts".

But no one asked my opinion and I was trying to be polite.
I think from the responses, Steve is getting the point.
Most people question the wisdom and Dave outright objects.

Russ

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2007 : 07:12:45

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Most people know by now that I'm the resident curmudgeon here. Chicken-curmudgeon might be more like it.

Edited by - on

serlo
Deckhand

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United Kingdom
3 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2007 : 09:45:21

Thanks all for your advice. It really confirms what I thought. I am an experienced sailor and therefore treat the sea with more respect perhaps than a newcomer. I'll think again.

A la perchoine.

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2007 : 21:46:21

Steve, alternatively, in order to gain the benefits of the c250, you could always mirgrate to south florida, probably cheaper than the purchase of a boat more suited to the current area

Paul.

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