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DIY Hard Link Project (Honda 9.9 four stroke)

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Steve Blackburn
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Canada
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Initially Posted - 06/16/2007 : 19:23:18

Hi Guys,

I thought I would be more convenient to start a new thread since I am diverting from the "soft link" discussion here.

As you have read in the "soft link" thread, I found some interesting stainless connecting joints for making a hard link. However after checking out my engine configuration (1999 Honda four stroke 9.9) I don't see the need to have flexible joints since my engine couldn't even move when tilted up.

Notice how little space I have on the port side of the engine once titled up.

The picture below illustrates what I am trying to do. I have 13 inches between the rudder and engine. The red line represents where I would put an adjustable link and the yellow lines represents how this link would be attached at both ends. Also notice that at this height my yellow rudder attachment is perfectly set to use the pintle bolts. Everything looks like it's going to be level (red line).

On the engine here is where I am thinking of piercing a hole and putting in a 90 degree elbow ending up with a bolt. I have the space and it looks like a very good strong spot to put it. I would do a clean job and put some rubber washers so nothing leaks inside the cowl.

Outside view

Inside view

Before taking my measurements, I checked out how easily my engine can go from full left to right. I then noticed that if the shifter is engage in the forwards position then it hits the hull. On the other side if the throttle lever is pushed all the way back then it can also hit the hull. So I decided to push the engine back a little making myself a spacer using a plastic kitchen cutting board (yellow arrow shows the original and you can see my whiter cutting board spacer). Also had to lift the engine a little (wood spacer) and I now have a tight but excellent free movement even with the shifter in forwards (as pictured).

Starboard side of engine

Port side of engine

CONCLUSION:
I believe I can construct myself a hard link using home depot stainless parts. When I'm ready to sail and tilt the engine upwards I will disconnect the link at the rudder connection point (method still to be determined) and clip the link arm against the engine.

QUESTIONS:
1. Even with the EZ-Steer I cannot see how it can be continuously connected (using my engine) when the engine is titled upwards. But maybe I am missing something here and please feel free to comment.

2. Any general comments on this project before I start piercing holes in the engine?

Steve Blackburn, Calgary, AB
C250WB - 1999 - Hull 396

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 06/16/2007 : 23:18:18

Steve, I have the 2000 version of that same motor. <b>Great</b> idea to move the OB back and up!! I am going to do that too. I have a piece of starboard to use instead of wood. I don't do wood.

There is another company that makes an EZ-steer type of thing that is less $ and has some intriguing parts. I will do a search and post it.

If you can perfect this hard link and then I add the Edson dual lever motor controls I will have compete controls while standing at the wheel.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 06/16/2007 : 23:34:49

Steve, look at these (Panther):

http://www.wmjmarine.com/88-1831.html

http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/product.asp?prod=254031

http://www.marinetech.info/pmarine/pmarine_limage.php?sku=552600

http://www.marine-products.com/engine/steer/marine_tech_panther_auxiliary_motor_steering_kit_zinc.jsp

Here is the same product, I think, by Stearns:

http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=100785F

http://www.reddenmarine.com/site/new-detail.cfm?id=STRG820

Here is another similar item, good photo:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/255525/0/0/steerin%20kicker/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0

And check this out!

http://www.amazon.com/Stearns®-Zinc-Plated-Quick-Disconnect/dp/B000HUTV26/ref=sr_1_4/105-1836052-5935656?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1182054747&sr=1-4

Well the link is funky but go to www.amazon.com/Stearns and then serach for the Quick Disconnect.

Oh, and Steve, don't start developing a stainless steel fold down helmsman seat. I'm already working on it.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/16/2007 23:44:39

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2007 : 04:28:20

Hey Randy,

Just to let you know, I raised the engine only 1/2 inch. The wood is temporary, and I will also put in a piece of Starboard soon. A stainless quick disconnect would be perfect for this project but instead of the Stearns I think I'll go with the Midewest control one. It just looks more solid and better built.

Question: When sailing, do you raise the engine or leave the prop in the water? (hence the need for a quick disconnect). Also notice how high my installation is, so it will be easy to disconnect by just sitting on the fuel locker. I'm envisioning a very well built link and easy smooth steering.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 06/17/2007 04:29:55

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 06/17/2007 : 11:08:27

I always raise the motor. See my thread on the EZ-Tilt which makes the job easy.

One thing to consider that I thought of after my last post. When I go to pedestal controls for F/N/R and throttle I will be removing the associated handles from the OB so it probably will not be necessary to mod the OB attachment at all, not out or up.

I really like the idea of a hard link that can be easily disconnected and it looks like you are closing in on it.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2007 : 16:44:17

Right! You could remove both shifter and throttle handles. I think you will be able to keep a constant link then.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2007 : 23:04:12

Zebra (Jay) has the EZ_Steer. I'd like to see pictures of the motor raised with tiller fully starboard and then port to see how things work out. I'm expecting that when raising the motor it would tend to pull on the link and point starboard.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 06/18/2007 14:28:55

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 06/18/2007 : 14:51:17

I am anxious to hear Zebra's report as well. I don't see how you could leave any hardlink connected when tilting up the motor. I don't see that as a big deal as long as the connector is within easy reach.

Here is another idea and it is inexpensive. Put a rudder gudgeon on the trailing edge of the rudder and a transom gudgeon on the OB. They could go in the spots you already identified. Then use a SS rod with a 90 degree turn at each end to drop into the gudgeons. Check out these gudgeons:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/72215/0/0/pintle/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0

You could store the short rod in the fuel locker and put it on and off for docking and wherever else you need the wheel-to-motor connection.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/18/2007 15:20:21

Steve Blackburn
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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2007 : 23:36:38

My project has already started. I think you will like what you see. So far all home depot and all parts came to $60. Jay, to make you happy, I made sure to go stainless the whole way except for some aluminum connecting bars. It's really coming along well, and will be very solid with a pro look. I dropped the idea of using ball joints since moving the engine while tilted up is not even something I want to do and my system doesn't require it. I took from Paul's (Britinusa) link and went ahead with V2 of his hard link. To disconnect the link you will tilt the engine up 45 degrees (the first click) then disconnect the rudder link through a simple wing nut and fully tilt the engine.

It's inexpensive, solid and quickly disconnected. Will post pictures soon (should be finished tomorrow) but wanted to tease a little tonight.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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Response Posted - 06/18/2007 : 23:46:39

Why is all this hard and soft linkage necessary? Inboard engine boats with either tillers or wheels can't link and they maneuver just fine with fixed shafts and props. My 250 has a tiller helm, my Tohatsu 9.8 stays in line with the keel, and by controlling my acceleration I maneuver in and out of my downwind slip without any problems regardless the wind speed or direction. When it works, I no fix it

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Steve Blackburn
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Response Posted - 06/19/2007 : 02:20:42

Well to sum it up, this is my first season with the boat and I need all the help I can. We're not all old salts like you Frank. :-)

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/19/2007 : 05:17:28

Frank, you have the luxury of a consistant slip, here in SOFLA Trailer land, we have to pull the boat each trip. That means navigating to a variety of ramps, not to the same slip each return to shore. Plus we visit a lot of public marinas that have pretty tight 'parking'. So maneuverability is vital and trying to turn with the engine locked central just doesn't cut it. (We know, our boat arrived with the engine locked central and didn't know it turned. Turning JD in tight corners was a beast!)

Paul (sailing boats since 1964, but only sailing a real boat since 2005

)

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 06/19/2007 : 09:22:38

Frank, those inboard engines also have their props in front of the rudder which makes a tremendous difference in steering control.

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AADIVER
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Response Posted - 06/19/2007 : 22:56:19

Looking forward to trading up to an inboard C-30 and not be inundated with all these 250 mods

. Yeah, gimme a prop forward of the rudder and not beside it

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Steve Blackburn
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Response Posted - 06/19/2007 : 23:40:57

Ok enough of that, back to mods now. LOL

I almost finished my DIY hard link and so far I'm very pleased with it.

Complete link assembly, aluminium angle bar with aluminium connecting rod and stainless hardware (bolts, nuts, etc.) With the rudder at 90 degrees, the engine is is slightly pointing port to compensate since it tends the push the bow port a little when straight. Not a big issue for you wheel steering boys, but with a tiller you can feel a slight presure.

Engine Full Starboard

Engine full port

Here is how the angle bar is connected to the rudder. Put in a piece of rod and round stainless ends. I hammered the connecting round rod flat at both ends and pierced a 3/8 holes at each end.

Here is how I connect to the engine. Pierced a 3/8 hole and put in a bolt and rubber washer. Made myself this mount from the same aluminium angle bar. Note that I intended to connect right over where the bolt goes in the engine, but had to move it down slightly because the engine was blocking when full starboard (once blocked, couldn't move the rudder or engine anymore!). Now this placement is ideal for my engine.

Connection point of the link to the rudder. Note that I still need to add some finishing touches to it such as rounding off those corners. Here is where I will disconnect once I'm in safe waters. I might change the wing nut for hitch pin going through the bolt in the future.

My original design opted for a swing arm as Paul did. But after reviewing this I noticed how close I really am, so no need for a swing arm as this picture show. Very easy to just sit on the fuel locker and disconnect with the wing nut.

Coming soon: The Movie. I made a short movie showing the left to right motion. The whole thing is very smooth and tight and quite easy to maneuver. I'll also supply the measurments for Jay since he has the same setup as I do (except he has wheel steering).

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 06/19/2007 23:43:28

Steve Blackburn
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Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 00:20:37

OK Get your popcorn ready. Frank I saved a seat for you right upfront.

Note that the engine goes all the way both ways. Since I was not standing straight behind the rudder for this video, an optical illusion is created where it seems that the engine goes farther one way than the other. Have no fear, it's perfect!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF0Maskf8q4

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 06/20/2007 00:26:29

britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 06:56:18

Ok Steve, the widget critic is onboard...

I'm wondering if you may have the same issue that I found: When going astern and steering stern to port, the forces from the engine caused the engine to rotate further to port, such that it set into a geometric lock which could not be released by turning the wheel. I had to physically rotate the engine.

To test prior to going in the water:
With the engine set to reverse and the tiller fully stbd (steering to port)
Try to manually turn the engine so that it points more to port.

On my setup, it may be due to the flex in the system, however on your system, there appears much less flex.

Could you post a pic of the system looking directly down when the tiller is fully to port, stbd and central.

Regarding removing the wingnut. May I suggest using one of the spring clip pins with the ring pull on the end. Remember, you'll be disconnecting (and later connecting) the system and raising/lowering the engine when you have got your sails up.

<center>
I searched for pins and found this

[url="http://www.jergensinc.com/pin_select.aspx?ms=en&style_ID=400&dia=0.25&grip=2"]

[/url]</center>

Paul

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 12:11:57

Paul, I had the same geometric lock when steering stern to port. The fix was to move the engine attach point about 2 inches back. So now even with the engine fully stern to port the rods are still not perfectly aligned causing no locking up. On my first iteration of the apparatus I had a very uneasy feeling about this locking up and saw myself locking up at the very worst moments. The first iteration was in fact too perfect with everything at 90 degrees. By moving the engine attach point back a few inches you loose this perfect parallelism, but it's hardly perceptible.

I will post a top down picture tonight with measurements leading to the attach points. Also a picture showing stern to port from the top down.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 06/20/2007 12:16:38

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 13:07:30

Steve nice job! Although I am disappointed that there is much more aluminum that stainless steel.

I have seen that on all of these mods - bungee, aluminum, wood - that the rudder attachment is always extended out past the rudder trailing edge. Even the EZ-Steer setup is like that. So, can I assume that it is a requirement that the rudder attachment point be a certain distance past the rudder to be effective? I assume this varies by the OB with the intent to keep the "turn angles" as low as possible. In other words, if the attachment point is too far forward the rod will hit the rudder or need excessive force to turn the OB.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/20/2007 13:08:21

Steve Blackburn
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Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 16:11:28

Randy...Well, yes and no.

The only way to keep the rudder and engine from turning exactly parallel to each other is that both connecting points are of equal lenght to the pivot point of the engine and rudder. Oh boy, let me take pictures now.

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 16:24:09

OK, now I'm dazed. Don't you WANT the rudder and motor to turn exactly parallel? Looking forward to the photos!

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Steve Blackburn
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Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 17:25:10

I believe most people will make the same mistake as I did where I measured from the boat to the end of the connecting point thinking that if they were the same I would have perfect parallelism forming a perfect "box". In fact I was mistaken, to get the perfect "box" you need to measure from the pintles of the rudder and the turning axis of the engine!

Nonetheless, my rig works extremely well now and does not lock up so here are my measurements:

From left to right: Yellow (17"), Red (13"), Green(12.75"), Yellow (15.25"), Red (14.75").

Again sorry for the fuzzy texts, from top to down: 1. New Connection Point (no locks), 2. Old Connection Point (geometric lock).

The yellow line represents roughly the point between the engine pivot and the rudder attach point. If for any reason your link is close to this yellow line you will get geometrical lockup and will not be able to push the engine back. Remember to take your measurements with the engine as much as it will go on either side.

Here are more measurements:

From stern to rudder pintle: 1.5"

From stern to rudder connection point: 16.25"

From stern to engine pivot: 4"

From stern to engine connection point: 17"

So the difference is 4" - 1.5" = 3.5". If your rudder connecting point (at the end of the arm) is 14.75" then you apply the following math:

14.75" - 3.5" = 11.25" which should give roughly the perfect "box" for your engine connection point for parallelism. Now notice that this would be true if your engine connection point would be straight aligned with your engine pivot point, but we are not! We are offset to the side of the engine so this offset also needs to be calculated:

11.25" (first result) + 1.75" (offset) + 4" (difference) = 17" from the stern <-- will not lock up.

NOTICE: By applying this method and calculations you are relieving me of all responsibility. Although this setup works for me with under my configuration, things might be different for your configuration. In any case, before running on the water, make absolutely sure that you do not have geometrical lock caused by a hard link since this will lock up your engine and rudder in a position you do not want to get into and cause accidents. Adjust your engine mounting point as necessary (as I did) until you have absolutely no lock even when pulling hard either way.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 06/20/2007 17:37:17

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 17:50:45

My head hurts.

It still looks to me like the rudder mount could have been right at the rudder trailing edge and not need to be extended. The extension actually puts the connector rod closer to the yellow line.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/20/2007 17:55:16

Steve Blackburn
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Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 22:17:13

Sure, but you would need more force. But again not much force is needed. I just wanted to connect to the engine corner somehow. Go ahead with V3 and send us pictures. I believe this is an improvement to Paul's hard link, and surely you can improve on mine.

So far I have about $90 put in there because of the design changes I incured as I went along. At $4 a bolt, you get there pretty quick.

Improvements I would see:
1. Shorten the extention to be no longer than the rudder. (As Jay suggested)
2. Use some form of ball bearing at the ends.
3. Have a better quick disconnect similar to what Paul has suggested.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 06/20/2007 22:20:35

britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/21/2007 : 06:49:05

Steve, great job demonstrating the geometric lock issue.

I agree with the comment at 'stainless' in place of aluminium, however, the engine is mostly aluminium too! The stainless will look nice and last longer.

Getting a piece of stainless bar (you could use the angle bar for both pieces, is the issue. I have a drill press in the garage (Harbor Freight) so could probably drill it, that might be an issue for some.

I'll chat with a client that owns an engineering company to see if he has any suitable material.

Great job!

Paul

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
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Response Posted - 06/21/2007 : 18:58:34

Thanks guys.

The reason I did not go with Stainless for the link and bar is simply because my Home Depot doesn't sell this. But I can confirm that my aluminium bar and link are very solid, much more than it needs to be, and to be honest the color isn't bad at all either. I'm testing the mod this week-end and will let you know.

Jay, can't wait to see your version 3 of this mod. I was looking at your pedestal setup the other night and it's pretty neat. I'm really looking forward to installing my Edson pedestal and engine remote lever.

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