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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Water ballast question

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CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/23/2007 : 10:52:58

Sorry to bring this up - but I looked at some of the archives and couldn't find anything that sounds like this question. I know absolutely nothing about the water ballast system on the 250.

A couple I know who live near me (SW Florida), with absolutely no experience sailing, just bought a brand new C250 WB. He's keeping it on a boat lift in back of the house - out of the water. Has no trailer and never plans to tow it anywhere. When the valve is shut, water comes out of the bottom when raised up on the lift. It comes out faster when the valve is opened. He asked the dealer and was told that "it's supposed to do that, to let the tank drain if you trailer it and forget to open the valve". I'm not sure about that answer. Just doesn't sound right. If the valve is designed to pass water you've got no way of really sealing the tank, empty or full.

Considering his intented usage, I also think he might have been better off with the wing. It's usually kind of breezy around here (wind speed has been 15 knots the whole week, today with gusts near 25), they'll be sailing in a large bay and in the Gulf of Mexico, keep the boat behind the house on a lift, and never trailer it anywhere. Am I right in assuming the wing is better suited to the above? I specifically bought mine because of the sailing conditions, although I have intentions of going through the agravation of moving it twice a year.

I told him to find the association on the web and join both it and the forum.

CaptRon400
C250 WK #688 "Running Free"
Telstar 28 #359 "Tri-Power"
2002 SeaDoo Challenger 2000 Merc V6
C400 #74 "Good Vibrations" (sold)

Edited by - on

Bob Jack
1st Mate

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USA
58 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2007 : 13:25:16

Hi Ron,
Your friends situation sounds identical to mine. I live in S.W. Florida and keep my 2006 250 WB on a lift behind my house. I'm not sure about the leaking valve. I never really looked to see if it leaks, but then again it wouldn't surprise me if it did...slowly. After all , it's not a perfect seal.
As to why your friends bought the WB versus wing keel. I considered both, but the water around here is VERY shallow in a lot of places. Get just a little bit out of a channel and you might get seriously stuck in the muck....Also getting up to the many beaches we have around here is a lot easier with out the keel.That, plus the ease of getting on and off the lift in the WB brought me to the same conclusion as your friend. If I didn't have the WB I'd have to time all my sailing trips to the tide charts and spend many hours sitting within sight of my home port, swatting bugs, waitng for some water. So far, so good. I'd rather have a conventional keel boat, but they're all a compromise.
Happy Sailing,Bob

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2007 : 14:03:47

Ron, the valve under the boat appears to be sealed with a disk of neoprene, but it's really easy to get a bit of seajunk (seaweed, grass, flotsum, etc.) caught between the seal and the hull fitting.

If it did leak, I would consider that a potential problem... If the boat were to be on the water and had a leaky WB tank (a leak that let's water into the bilge from the WB tank) then the boat could sink!

As a new boat, leaks internally are almost unknown, so not a big deal.

Is the bung in place in the anchor locker?

Paul

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2007 : 15:01:23

Bob -

My portion of SW Florida is Charlotte Harbor with the dock on the other side of Ponce Inlet in Punta Gorda, which is far from being the deepest channel in the world. Never even remotely had a problem getting the 3'6" wing in or out. My 400 (near 6 foot shoal wing), still up in NJ, would not make it thru most of the year, and therefore will stay in NJ until it's sold.

I've never sailed a 250 water ballast, but I would think that it has got to be more tender than its heavier cousin with all of the extra weight 2 feet under the hull. Beaching (or even getting close to a beach with) a wing keel is obviously out, so the water ballast definitely has the advantage there. Anyway, 10 to 15 knots of wind (with many days of higher gusts) seems to be the norm around here from fall thru spring. Hell, I've got the front windows and whole lanai open now and it's blowing 15 INSIDE the house. How stable is any water ballasted boat in the 15 to 20 knot range? My friends are newbies and I'd hate to see them get in trouble. I'm hoping to get out on their boat with them before we head north in a few days.

Getting back to my original question, I still can't see them building a boat where the valve is SUPPOSED to leak "to drain the ballast tank in the event you forget to turn the valve when trailering".

Edited by - on

crystal_blue
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2007 : 16:55:06

It seems like the question of relative stability between the WB and the WK came up on these boards in the last month or two. If memory serves, the consensus was something to the effect that the WB is initially a little more tender, but that once it has a few degrees of heel it stiffens up and is actually a little more stable than the WK.

--Jim

Edited by - crystal_blue on 05/23/2007 16:56:13

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2007 : 18:16:56

My WB S/N 89 I have had for six years. I have electrical power at my slip and can blow the ballast before removing Brandy from the lake. Never seen water come out when boat initially comes out on trailer and when manually opening valve several gallons comes out. Don't think that valve is suppose to leak.....

Edited by - on

JohnMD
Navigator

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USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2007 : 18:19:25

I have forgotten to open the valve before I pulled my boat out of the water. Water TRICKLES out of the valve. I don't think the intent is to auto drain if you forget to open it, but, I also don't think the valve is supposed to seal like a head gasket. When the boat's sitting in the water, the ballast isn't going to leak back into the lake anyway.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2007 : 17:22:22

The boat can NOT sink with a leaky ballast valve. And a trickle will not affect sailing qualities at all. Now, if water leaks into the bilges along the stem of the ballast valve, that's a different story. If you have that problem, like I did on my 250, I know why it happens, and I have a fix....in fact if you dig very deep on this forum you may find it.

I think it would be beneficial to blow the ballast and then lift the boat, lot less weight on the lift.

The 250WB does very well in a breeze.....I've seen 30 knots on the Chesapeake, and it was well under control. As far as stability, the boat needs to be sailed flat, or it will want to round up. (Arlyn can explain why the hull shape contributes to this). So reef early, and have at it.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2007 : 17:28:58

The main concern I would have about a leaky ballast tank on a lift is that if it becomes, let's say half full, and you go sailing without opening and filling it (assuming a slow leak), it could dramatically <i>destabilize</i> the boat. A partially full tank is worse than an empty one, since the ballast will go to the leeward side. (Have you ever been in a dinghy half-full of water?)

The dealer's explanation is indeed "creative"... (read B.S.) However, I wouldn't expect that valve to be 100% tight indefinitely. I'd suggest, with a WB boat on a lift, that you open the valve every time you drop--just to ensure that the tank is completely full before any sails go up.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2007 : 20:08:53

Would love to see a picture of a C250 on a lift posted here. Also I guess I don't understand why the ballast drain valve and air vent plug aren't opened when the boat is raised out on a lift and left open when the boat is refloated and ballast tank refilled.

Edited by - on

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