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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/14/2007 : 14:42:05

My auto-inflatable life jacket that is.

Wild day sailing yesterday, winds up to 17 MPH on the lake. No reefing set up yet but we did furl in the genny and learned a lot about the 250, angle of heel, etc. All in all a great day for us and a confidence builder.

Then we docked.

We got in the slip just fine and the Admiral secured the bow. The wind, however, pushed the stern away from the dock. The Captain leaped onto the dock and grabbed the mid stanchion. Soon the Captain was parallel to the water and then - KURPLUNK - the Captain was in the water. Three seconds later and - POOF - the life vest inflates. Thank goodness for the swim ladder on these boats. The Admiral vacillated from sympathy to laughter throughout.

This is two tough times docking in high winds. Here is my thinking. The Admiral should first secure the boat at mid-point instead of the bow. Securing the mid-point would limit the bow and stern movement because the fenders/dock would stop any rotation. Sound right? Has anyone added a mid-ship cleat for this purpose? I was thinking a line could be set on the cleat and then drop the other end, looped, onto a dock cleat. Or how about a line around the which and then drop that line's loop on the dock cleat and winch in even closer?

Please advise. I cannot afford to re-arm too many live vests.

We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 15:26:33

There was another recent thread on this... The net of it is that you should leave a springline (with loop) at the outer point of your slip, pick it up with a boat hook on your way in, drop it on a midship cleat or even the winch, and then continue until it's taught. Then leave the engine in gear to hold the boat against the springline, which will pull you against the dock, while you calmly step off and secure some other lines. If the bow is trying to blow off, turn the engine to push the stern out--if the stern is blowing off, do the opposite. The springline is your pivot point and will basically hold you against the dock as well as stop you short of crunching your bow until you disengage the engine.

Also, I never turn off the engine until the boat is fully secured on both ends and with all springlines. It can quickly give you an assist in dealing with wind or current.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/14/2007 15:32:30

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 15:53:00

Randy, Thanks for making these posts. I feel beeter about my insecurities when it comes to docking. Maybe we could just drop the hook a little off shore and swim for it...... naw, the water temp is in the 40's here.

Edited by - on

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 15:54:02

Do a search of Midrail Cleats at West Marine. These work very well. We have one on each side and use them to secure our fenders and spring lines. I note the price has gone up since we bought ours several years ago.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 16:55:09

Do our boats have the 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 rails?

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 18:15:36

Well, the life jacket did what it is supposed to do. When I first bought mine (2) I was taking it out of the mess bag and . . . pooofff! It inflated. Yep it works!

The second time was in the seat compartment. I got on the boat and noticed the seat seemed "out of place". Opened the seat and Pooffff, the vest had sprung again. It is not a good idea to keep your auto inflatables outside in the seat lockers. Too much moisture will soften the "pill" and . . . .. poooffff.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 19:02:43

Turk, how old were the 'pills' ??
I keep our PLJs hanging on a hook on the inside of the head door.

I keep a couple of spare re-arming kits in a poly ziplock.

Paul

Edited by - on

Jarrett Anderson
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 20:45:09

LOL, we all have these stories. Set your bow line, you can use as a spring line if needed. Keep the motor running so you can prop walk or steer if needed.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2007 : 22:12:16

It's a good Idea to unscrew the CO2 cartridge in between uses.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2007 : 14:38:48

I don't know about that Duane. Our vests are 6 years old and we never did a thing to them and it worked just like it should have. I would be concerned that a person would forget to re-tighten the cartridge and the vest would fail just when it was needed.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2007 : 14:51:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 ...I would be concerned that a person would forget to re-tighten the cartridge and the vest would fail just when it was needed.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Me too. I would just service them religiously.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2007 : 17:18:58

No doubt, docking takes practice and probably much depends on wind, etc. Sometimes I can motor parallel to slip, while others I come in at 45 degree angle. But I secure bow first, always. Then do stern but always leave motor running until totally secured.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2007 : 18:47:13

I agree with Dave & Randy, I'd be worried about remembering to tighten up the cylinders each time, and if the pill has dissolved it's going to fire either way.

I've had mine self-inflate once, just laying on the settee, dry. I'm not sure exactly when it happened, the boat was in it's slip and I hadn't been on it for a couple of really rainy weeks. I opened the hatch, saw the vest spread out over the settee and thought I'd had a thief aboard rooting through my stuff. Then I noticed nothing else was disturbed and the PFD was "expanded". Most of the CO2 had leaked out in the intervening time, so it was mostly flat. Not sure what caused the pill to deteriorate, probably high humidity from all the rain, but I blew it back up to make sure it still held air, rearmed it, and haven't had a problem since then. We keep ours in their mesh bags up forward in the v-berth when we're not wearing them.

I also carry rearming kits for both of our PFDs, but need to put them in a vacuum sealed bag. I stupidly bought two different PFD's so now I have to have two different rearming kits. They're both made by Sospenders, don't know why they would use two different 38 gram CO2 cartridges in the same line of vests. One has a larger screw thread than the other.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2007 : 19:00:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Turk, how old were the 'pills' ??
I keep our PLJs hanging on a hook on the inside of the head door.

I keep a couple of spare re-arming kits in a poly ziplock.

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The one in the seat compartment that went off was 2 years old. There is a manufacture date on the pill. They say the pill will last for 3 years. I just replaced the other one that is 4 years old and the pill was very crumbly. It fell apart as I took it out of the chamber. My vests are made by sterns. I called them when the one went off in the bag and they sent me a new rearm kit and green pins - for free. They also some years later sent me the bottom caps (auto cap) for my 2 vests when I thought I lost them. Again for free. (I put them in the vests inside pouch and forgot about them!)

Great company and something that one day may save your life. Can ask for more than that.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2007 : 15:11:56

Well, we took Kaija out yesterday for the first time. 0 - 2 knots of wind so we mostly motored. Coming back into the dock, we hit the pilings pretty hard with the bow pulpit. That was without any wind! Man, do we need practice.

So, we went out this afternoon. Conditions were a little different. Winds 12-15 knots with gusts higher. We just had the jib up. I now understand the discussions here about not getting very close to the wind with gib alone. I stalled a few times when trying to tack but was able to jibe OK but, that's a different thread.

When we came to the dock, I was determined not to hit as hard as yesterday. Yeah, right!!! 15 knot winds just 20 degrees or so off of dead down wind blowing into the main dock and off our starboard finger pier. Well, luckily there isn't a boat in the other side of the double wide slip because I wedged Kaija at a 45 degree angle to the slip. Jammed the port catbird seat rail on the wrong side of a piling and that held us pretty tight since the starboard bow line was cleated too tightly (don't ask) on our side of the slip by then. Anyway, no serious harm done. The Admiral wrote in the ship's log that we need docking practice. Ya think?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2007 : 16:18:19

John: I won't rehash the docking subject--except the analogy to getting to Carnegie Hall... And if you don't have them, get a pair of midship cleats (a C-250 person should suggest their placement) and keep a springline at the outside end of your slip. You'll be amazed.

As for tacking on jib alone, don't release the sheet until the jib is backwinded, which pushes your bow through the wind. Then release (before it stops you) and trim. It's not a good racing technique, but it can keep you out of irons when knocking around. One more common error is pushing the tiller past 45 degrees, which "stalls" the rudder--making it more of a brake. That's also true maneuvering around the dock.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/19/2007 16:27:07

Andy_334
Navigator

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USA
206 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 10:41:13

Loosening/removing CO2 canisters sounds like a tragedy waiting to happen. Anytime anyone is relying on a human to remember something essential, there is a risk.

I once heard a wise old sea-dog type of guy describe the regular replacement rearm kits as just a cost of ownership.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 12:22:05

John, we took the advice of folks on the forum and went with a springline. We loop one end over the winch and the Admiral drops the other looped end over a cleat on the outside end of the slip finger as we come in. Once that is done I can use the outboard to control the entire boat. I leave the OB in forward and at just about idle it keeps the boat leveraged against the dock. If the bow moves out a quick turn of the OB to port puts the nose right back. The springline acts as a pivot. It really is amazing. We practiced about a half dozen times yesterday. The Admiral missed the cleat once so I am going to fabricate a way to keep the loop open and manageable in high wind. The springline system works!

We also used it for backing out of the slip. The springline held us in place while all other lines are removed. We then back out and the Admiral lifts the loop off the dock cleat as we slowly back out. Our goal is no use of muscle in docking or leaving and no one gets on or off the boat while it is moving.

By the way does anyone out there use a pivot point other than the winch for the boat-end of the springline for docking? Also, I saw a suggestion to leave the springline at the dock, pick it up with the boat hook, and place on the boat cleat/winch. That would also work but the trouble is that wont be how slips are set up when you travel to other marinas. We decided to use the method that will work just about anywhere.

Edited by - on

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