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New Owner 250 WB 2001

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bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 13:08:55

I would call Catalina engineering or "Kent at Catalina" and discuss this before I did anything. I have no new phone numbers but I'm sure a member of the forum does. They have been very helpful to me in the past and followed up a few times and have sent small parts free of charge.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 18:03:20

Your PO apparently had the problem... If you can get him to fess up, it might help you in talking to Catalina.

Edited by - on

DougA
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 20:03:19

Kents phone # is (818) 884-7700 x 236 or even better try kent @catalinayachts.com. Talked to him twice last week and received two emails from him.

Doug Andrijasevich

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2007 : 02:02:07

After reading this post a few months back I really felt for the guy. I also bought my boat this season and just discovered I have the exact same problem, located in the same area (starboard WB cracking on the starboard side). See my latest post: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15836

Barelyrooty, what is the outcome of your perils? I'm thinking of fiberglassing over the crack tomorrow.

Edited by - on

barleyrooty
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2007 : 13:16:30

End result... Got a pro fibreglasser to come and take care of it. Cost me around $850. He ground out the weak, thin, decaying, cracked fibreglass and rebuilt the area.

Result: Now I'm only getting a tiny bit of water, and I think it's only when I'm sailing. I suspect either a pinhole crack remains, perhaps near the top of the tank, or it's coming through the valve top. I can live with it now for the season (especially since I had an auto-pump put in), and will think about another investigation in the fall when she comes out.

Had a great first sail from marina to my mooring in about a 12kt wind. Since I was alone I just got the jib up and cruised steadily, making the 7mi trip in a little over 2 hours. Think the speedometer was reading low, though. Wind direction and sunshine were as good as I could hope for. One of those few perfect sailing days!

The next day tried it with my brother with both sails - was heeling pretty hard once we unfurled the jib so we stuck with the main. Other than having fun getting in and out of the harbor - I can only seem to turn to port under power at low speed (prop wash?) - we didn't have any major problems. I'm sure I'll get more comfortable and skilled with her in time.

Thanks again for the advice and moral support. It really makes a difference having you guys around.
Phil

Just one more question (for now): Doesn't fibreglass generally degrade when in water unless it's gelcoated? Is the inside of the tank gelcoated?

Edited by - barleyrooty on 07/21/2007 13:24:02

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2007 : 14:00:03

Gelcoat is simply decorative. Boat owners don't want the checkerboard pattern of the main fiberglass to show through so the boat builders apply a thin fabric of glass and then gelcoat to cover it all up. Nothing structural about it. Fiberglass should not deteriorate in water. I know people with 40 year old boats that are in fine shape.

I think you and Steve have a legitimate gripe to Catalina and would encourage you to pursue it. It looks like a build problem to me.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2007 : 14:02:01

I was not aware that fiberglass degrades when in water. If it is true and the WB tank isn't gel coated inside, then the WB isn't a good boat to leave out in the water for a whole season. I always put it back on the trailer after 1-2 days of sailing (in fresh water). But the PO was mooring it in salt water and on the trailer for a few month, this for about 6 years. It would make no sense if the WB version couldn't be left out moored for prolonged periods and would simply be an engineering flaw.

I'm anxious to learn why Barelyrooty and I had fiberglass degeneration like this. What could be the cause? My boat is from Oregon and his is in NY, so leaving it full of water in sub zero conditions could be one of the reasons. And since both he and I have the problem in the same location, it could just be that this spot is the weaker spot and succombs first.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/21/2007 14:06:05

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2007 : 14:13:17

Randy, just read your post (I posted 2 minutes after you). I'm glad to hear that fiberglass does not deteriorate when in water. But your example of 40 year old boats is surely based on non-WB versions that has gelcoat in between the fiberglass and water. On top of that if anything deteriorated on these 40 year old boats they wouldv'e been easily fixed. In our case you can't see inside the WB tank, so it's kind of a unknown for us.

I have a good feeling that after fiberglassing thickly over my problem area that I will fix it for good. Nonetheless if you could get the official word from Catalina or find another source of information that would indicate that the WB tank has no wood in there (between fiberglass sheets) and that it cannot deteriorate then I would feel much better.

(EDIT): Now that I think about it, large fiberglass water tanks exist that are put in the ground. They do not have gelcoat or other, so I guess that answers that.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/21/2007 14:25:12

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2007 : 16:06:33

Steve the gelcoat being cosmetic is definitely true. I would be surprised if there was a wood core in the water tank. Surely someone in the forum who has modded the filler area would know. The hull of a Catalina is not cored and I doubt the water tank would be. Reading your posts makes me believe that your repair will do the trick. I suspect that is a weak point in the tank that in some way has been disturbed.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2007 : 20:08:08

I agree Randy. I put 2 layers of fiberglass today. Putting the 3rd tomrrow and from what I have seen so far, there is not way water is going to get out of there again. Not easy putting in fiberglass at the tip of your fingers when you can only put your shoulder through the bilge openning. Can't see what I was doing, but overall I think I did a good job. I'll take pictures soon.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/21/2007 20:09:07

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2007 : 13:27:03

On my WB air vent tube, I have a plug. Do you think it possible that when on the trailer, with the plug in and openning the WB valve that the negative presure in the tank can actually cause it to buckle in?

This would explain both barleyrooty and my problem since this section of the tank seemed to be moved inwards while ripping the fiberglass.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2007 : 17:25:40

Yep, I think it would cause it to pull in. I don't know if it would be enough to crack it but, repeated buckling can't be good.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2007 : 18:22:23

Yes I think that's it. It all makes sense now. On top of this what we do is once the boat is on the trailer I openned the WB valve then signal the Admiral to pull the boat out. Sometimes I would discover that I forgot to remove the vent plug. So you can see that with the negative presure + movement and slight bumps pulling out and into the parking area that it could very well buckle. We must be talking about lots of presure here when the WB valve is full open with the plug in.

What advantage is there to plug in the air vent in the first place? Only reason I can think of is to slow down an eventual leak from the bottom WB valve, but the slow leak would just depresurize through the WB butterfly hole anyways, so I don't see much advantage to keeping the vent plugged.

You can view my before and after picture of my fiberglassing over the leakage area following this [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=0.92&TOPIC_ID=15836#111137"]thread[/url]. Sorry this discussing kind of split into 2 threads, since in the beginning I had no idea my problem was a WB leak.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/22/2007 18:25:02

khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 13:39:45

Well, I have a confession to make on my boat. The first weekend I had it I grounded it pretty hard and it cracked pretty much all the way around the tank. Epoxy has taken care of most of the leaks but there are some I still haven't been able to reach so I have a slow leak from the ballast tank. Only about a quarter inch a week leaving it at the dock in the marina so, as long as I make it down every few months, it isn't going to sink. But, I have put in an automatic pump just in case.

You might check around the bottom for any irregularities under the bottom paint. Some bozo might have done just what this bozo did and hit a rock.

Keith

Edited by - on

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