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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Is my Guest Battery charger dead?

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britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/27/2007 : 20:27:44

Have been venting the cabin over the weekend after doing a bilge clean. Tonight when I turned on the cabin lights the batteries were obviously flat! (both of them) the fan started up weakly and then hummed to a halt and the lights, even the LED light all dimmed out.

Checked the power supply to the charger is ok, but no lights on it and battery voltage is pitiful.

Tested shore power and it's correct polarity and at 121v

Charger is less than 2 years old!!!! Grrrrr.

What do you think?

paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 20:45:05

Some chargers have built in fuses. Any chance that could be the problem? Also, what drained your batteries? A short somewhere or did you leave something on?

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 21:10:39

Tom, the unit is one of those encased in resin, absolutely nothing to open, fix or service!
The cabin power was turned off, but as mentioned, previously I used power all weekend after cleaning the bilge. I used a 12v fan (Car type) to blow air through the bilge to dry it out (we put in a 10% chlorine solution and then rinsed it out with fresh water.) The fan was probably on for more than 12 hours over the 2 days. (Fan, 2 cabin fans as well)

Tested voltage at the disconnected charger... ok,

Paul

luckily, I have a $20 WM coupon and a $15WM thankyou check so replacement should not hurt too much, but to only last less than 20 months sucks.

Paul

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 21:29:45

Do you have wet cell batteries? If so, are the cells full?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 21:50:32

Did it have good ventilation? I had a Guest on my old boat and it was a hot sucker. My new Charles runs cool enough to have under the quarterberth.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 03/27/2007 21:50:49

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2007 : 21:59:29

Check the positive lead to the battery--my portable Guest has a fuse holder on it just above the battery clamp. I blew that fuse once when I reversed the clamps...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/27/2007 22:01:33

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2007 : 00:07:35

Dave, my installtion of the charger included inline fuses on both +ve outputs at the charger. I did and ohms check on them tonight, they are fine.

I'll check the fluid levels in the morning before I head to the office, I did check them back in January and they were fine. ( I modified the original battery bay last year because it was impossible to get the #1 battery out to check the fluid. )

Anyone got any ideas on how to test the charger (it's on my desk right now.)

Paul.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2007 : 08:37:47

could you have knocked a wire loose when you were cleaning? When you connect it to your house power, you should get 13. something volts out of the leads. If you have a Battaries Plus near you, they will check it out for no charge. Cheers.

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2007 : 10:29:30

Paul;

Don't throw it out just yet, 12v problems are usually bad connections. Sailboats and motorcyles both get exposed to the elements and "failures" are usually corroded connections, and most of those are bad grounds. First, check your charger with your volt/ohm meter, it should put out about 13-14 volts DC. If good, then put it back in the boat and start looking at other connections. Disconnect the batteries from the boat loads, so it is just the AC breaker, charger and batteries, and see if the batts will charge. Reconnect the boat and follow the power from the charger, through the batteries and up to the switches and buss bar. Look closely at connectors for green corrosion or breaks. If the boat was wet from your washdown, maybe some connector got wet and drained the batts. Check your bilge pump. When I got my '82 WK/SR the wiring was a mess and mostly gone. I found that the built-in float switch (internal to the pump) was 'leaking' voltage when off, and the pump would hum as it drained my battery. As I rewired the boat, I tore out a lot of the old wires and found that the PO had used non-tinned wire and some of it was corroded 12-18 inches up into the insulation. I started over with a new main switch, buss bar and wires to the batteries. Also, I didn't know how the charger was hooked up to the AC shore power circuit breaker, so I wired mine such that the breaker had to be ON to feed the charger. Check that too. Good luck!!

Paul
'79 Triumph Bonneville
'79 Honda CD750

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2007 : 10:38:47

Paul, did you check the voltage at the batteries with the charger hook up and plugged in? The voltage should read 13.8 if the charger is good. Now for the bad news. If you read the instructions with the Guest charger it will tell you not to have any load on the battery while the charger is in operation or you will damage the charger. I am a kinda instructions nut, so I happened to read the instructions before I installed mine and took it back to WM. I ended up with a Xantrex TC10TB which could operate while the batteries are under load.
Here is a link to my install.

http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12134& SearchTerms=battery,charger,install

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2007 : 11:03:05

I was going to buy a Guest until I spoke to tech support who told me that no load could be on the charger while it was charging. That is a major inconvenience. I went with the Xantrex that Frog describes.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2007 : 11:24:53

My Charles also acts as a 12 volt source so when there is a load it assumes the draw and still maintains the charge on the battery.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2007 : 11:24:56

A note on your batteries; I'm assuming they are deep cycle. You should not let them sit dead. Use another charger and get them back up to full charge as soon as you can.

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johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2007 : 13:25:25

Turn every thing off on the 12 volt system.
I would suggest you use your voltmeter and swicth it to the Amp setting.
Remove the battery positive lead at the battery.
Attach the red lead from the volt meter to the positive battery post and connect the black lead from the voltmeter to the positve battery lead.
Note: most volt meters have a 30Amp fuse.
Read the Amps and note if it's neg or pos reading Amps.
Turn on the 12 volt system and take another reading.
Turn on your battery charger and take another reading if the Amps increase and it's a positive + then your battery charger is working.
Let us know the results......this could turn into a saga.

pauljC250 WK#719

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2007 : 17:42:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Have been venting the cabin over the weekend after doing a bilge clean<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Charger is probably fried. Guest chargers are not designed to supply dock side loads. They are only designed to restore deep cycle batteries that are not in service. If you want a charger to supply dockside loads, you need one designed for that duty. I got that information from the Guest Engineering department.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2007 : 22:16:32

Yep, the charger is fried! Tested it out of the boat.

Now I can tell you why I shop at West Marine! They took it back! and gave me a new one.
Of course (not WM's fault) the new one is slightly different in that it has leads instead of being hard wired, so the 110v lead is way too long and the 12v leads are too short.

I'll make a habit of not running the boat elecs while charging in the future.

Benefit of the new charger - I now have installed a 110v outlet in the back of the aft berth.

Paul

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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USA
3436 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 05:48:54

I have to go back and see the instructions regarding my Guest "Smart" Charger. Mine was made to be hard wired and believe there is no sitch to turn off or on. basically, you hard wire it into the 110AC and then hard wire it directly to the batteries. So...I do not see how you cannot use the 12 volt electrics on the boat while hooked up at same time to 110ac. When hooked up to 110VAC, the charger comes on automatically and that would be like times when you visit another marina and are going to hook up to 110ac and also run 12volt cabin lights, etc at same time.

I need to look over the directions again ..after reading the above posts...now I have concerns.

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 06:46:00

Larry, you are right on. My old charger was hard wired (the 110v connection is via 3 screw studs and the output is via 3 screw studs (+ve1, -ve, +ve2) and there is no way to turn it off other than killing the supply (ours is a breaker in the head)

We discussed it this morning and our plan is to turn off the breaker when the genny or shore power is connected and when we want to use the batteries. In retrospect, I reckon the failure was probably due to the 12v fan I ran, it's not one of hella the low amp fans but one of those big fans used in autos that have no AC.

Had I read the comments about the other brands allowing battery use I would most likely have chosen one of those as the replacment. oh well... next time.

A manufacturer needs to come out with a unit that does...
a) Charge dual batteries
b) Has a built in battery selector switch
c) Has digital v & a displays
d) Automatic switch over (with manual overide) of 12v supply from batteries (off charge) to unit (on charge)
e) has a built in 110v inverter
f) costs about $50 with a lifetime 'it breaks we replace it' warranty.
And you can install it in 20mins.

Paul

Edited by - britinusa on 03/29/2007 06:49:47

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 08:09:42

And now the good news!!!

I connected the new charger this morning, and the batteries are still fully charged!!!

My conclusion is that when the charger failed, it also caused a short somehow. I guess that because I disconnected the charger so quickly after the failure that no harm was done to the batteries.

I had installed a pair of fuses at the charger end of the battery supply leads so that they were easily changed in the cabin if need arose, the new unit has the fuses at the battery end of the built in cable so now I have to pull the battery bay door to get access to them.)

So an update to the specs of what a charger should include is easily accessible fuses (both 12v and 110v)

Paul

Edited by - on

KD4AO
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 08:43:04

Just wondering, what are the model numbers of the failed unit and the new one? I use a Guest 2611A.

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britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2007 : 16:59:45

Bob, the failed unit was a 2610A and the replacement is a 2611A --- Snap!

The 2611A that I now have has cables that dissappear into the resin encased unit. the older 2610A had 5 places to screw down ring terminals. I liked the old method better because you can match the cables to the correct size and not have 5' of cable to curl up out of the way and no need to splice an extension onto the too short battery cables.

Paul

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