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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Strkly Sail: beating the dead horse-bigger boats

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Paul
1st Mate

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57 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/01/2007 : 15:14:42

Just visited Strickly Sail Chicago. Standing in the cockpit of a new 309, I had a conversation with a guy who used to own a C30 and a C25 before that. Both were sailed on lake Michigan. We covered all the usual ground, but his net opinion was that the 30 was more comfortable and the 25 was more fun. It's up to you which characteristic matters more and how much you're willing to pay for it.

A bit of irony in his history was that for years they lived about 2.5 hours from their 25 and would spend weekends aboard. Their purchase of the 30 coincided with a move to within 30 minutes of the boat. He said, "It's hard to justify sleeping with the spiders in the heat when you're so close to a good shower, soft bed, and air conditioning.

As for the show, no surprises really. The boats on display keep getting bigger. The one exception is the new Harbor 25, a pretty, little day-sailor/weekender. But at $80k, not very attractive to me.

As with last year, Strickly Sail provided me with a lot of affirmation that a 24-year-old Catalina 25 is the right boat for me right now. Although that Bavaria 30 did have some really nice features...

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2007 : 15:22:37

I am going to our boat show locally on Saturday. It will probably be mostly bass boats because of our location. However, I know before I even enter the door that buying a new sailboat is not going to happen in my lifetime. Yeah I would like to be the first owner, but a 25 at $80,000?... I can find a 30 or 32 Cat or other for that money and they are not that old and most likely have more equipment on board. Yikes...that's $3,200 per foot! I bet I have as much fun in my 1985 Standard rig as I could in a a boat of that price. In fact, I am not constantly worrying about the next payment. I do want a bigger boat though.

Maybe they ought to call it: "Strictly Highway Robbery"

Edited by - cat1951 on 02/01/2007 15:24:33

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2007 : 17:03:43

Mike, I am going to try and go tonight because of the snow on the ground, and I am looking forward to maybe a smaller crowd. The last time Kim and I went there was a 25ft Catalina, and a smaller Hunter from Redbud Marine. It was on the lower level by the big doors (east side). We are going because we really have nothing better to do than to sit in the house and watch movies. After 3 weeks of the ice I am starting to get "Letsleaveitus".

I was up at our boat the other day, and it seems to be holding up on the hoist well. The Capri 25 next to ours wasn't so lucky. The tubes had gone down because of loss in air temperature, and pressure in the tubes, I was told that the hole transom was under water and waves were coming over the top of the transom into the cockpit. The ice has been a real mess for almost all of the hoist owners, the newer hoist 83-99 have one valve per hoist, where ours an older 79 model has two valves per side. It is sometimes a hassle getting the boat up on the hoist strait, but it gives me a good sense of peace that our hoist was 1 of 5 that did stay up with all of the weight of the snow, and ice. The other 30 something hoist had to be filled up.

Sorry for the hyjack

Edited by - Ericson33 on 02/01/2007 17:05:42

Ericson33
Admiral

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Response Posted - 02/01/2007 : 22:15:05

Well, I just got back from the Tulsa show. There are 8 sailboats this year from a Hunter 21 to a very nice Hunter 31. there were two Catalina's that I got a chance to take a look at. the first was the 270, then the 250. Both boats were very nice and looked really nice all shiny and new. The 31ft Hunter was very nice, the wife got on board first having to take her shoes off, then as the dealer and I talked he told me I could look around all I wanted to, just to be sure to wipe my feet on the mat before I got on. My 3 1/2 year old son was really having fun with dad looking thru all of the lockers, and I was really impressed with the in-mast furler for the main sail.

For now the boat is well out of our goals, and I really felt glad of what we have invested in our little Capri 25. The Dealer Micheal and I chatted about the local racing, as my wife talked about Redbud marina, and what it might offer us. the dues are a little more than what we are paying right now, and I really don't want to start thinking about the move, but we were asked to come out to the club and take a look around, and Micheal has a 37ft Endeavor (sp) that he said he was restoring at the marina.

The biggest boat at the show was a House boat that Arrowhead was selling, It was 110' long and 22' wide. I will leave the details out as I don't want to ruin the surprise.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2007 : 07:56:07

Chris,
They showed some of the 110' house boat on the news earlier this week. I think at over $800k I will have to wait for my next check.

The dealer you were talking to (Michael) I think he is the one that has been at Redbud for quite a while. When we visited windycrest a couple of years ago, I think we sailed with him on either the 17 or 21' Hunter. I am like you though. Looking is about all I can do now. We are moving from the 71st Street area where we are now up to east of Claremore. We are building our retirement home and it should be ready by July. The Admiral wanted to move closer to the lake (Grand) so we could get to the boat easier. Boy was I shocked... and she keeps talking about getting a larger sailboat with a few ammenities.... another shock. Once we are settled in the new house, I feel a C28 or C30 in my future.

BTW: There are some open slips at our marina at Grand if you are so inclined.

Edited by - cat1951 on 02/02/2007 07:58:03

Downbucket
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2007 : 12:28:47

Hi All:

The Boston Boat Show is coming February 17-24 in a new location. The hall is bigger meaning more boats and the ceiling is higher allowing sailboats to raise their masts. I am planning to attend. It's fun to look at the boat I will be buying in 20 years.

Will

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2007 : 14:20:19

I hope to be there--my boat just might be, too. Eastern is showing a bunch--I haven't decided whether I like the idea of mine being one of them...

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2007 : 17:10:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 I hope to be there--my boat just might be, too. Eastern is showing a bunch--I haven't decided whether I like the idea of mine being one of them...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I would think $1500-$2500 off the price would be about right.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2007 : 22:35:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 I would think $1500-$2500 off the price would be about right.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think they think the ego food is worth at least that much...

But I suspect they'll take a more "standard" one they were building for a dealer. (Fine with me.) Should be a good show!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/02/2007 23:05:02

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2007 : 09:36:39

Went to the boat show last night. Saw Twiggy the water skiing squirrel. Not impressed, she was on two ski's now if they could get her to slalom ski they got something.

Looked at several sailboats. Catalina 270, C250, Hunter 33, and a 27 (I think). The 270 is one sweet sailboat. Separate head, nice galley, plenty of head room, and wheel steering (for the Admiral), but at $68,500 it is a little too rich for my pocketbook. I am glad we looked at it though. It confirmed that this is a nice boat for lake sailing. We have one sitting in the slip next to us and not a single visit from the owners last year. It really disappoints me that they have a great boat and it just sits slowly getting dirtier and decaying little by little. My wife has even considered cleaning the outside just to keep it in better shape.

Anyway, we looked at several power yachts with every conceivable options and price..most above $100,000 and more in the $200K to $500K range. Then there was the 115 houseboat at $850k. 4 Bedroom, triple level, a helm in the living quarters that hides away in the flooring when not in use. Granite counter tops, flat panel TV's, and a kitchen that is straight out of Better Homes and Gardens. The best was the laundry room with washer dryer. I guess the way you know you are on the water is to accidentally fall overboard. That is if you ever leave the dock.

One thing I did come away with though, is that buying new sure is a waste of money. At least to me. You can get a steal on used boats of the same length and with more extras. According to the local news, there is over $100 million in equipment on display at this show. (We left our checkbook at home.)

Edited by - cat1951 on 02/03/2007 09:38:12

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2007 : 09:57:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cat1951
 One thing I did come away with though, is that buying new sure is a waste of money.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I thought so too... until I decided, in my new circumstances, the next boat I wanted hadn't been built yet!

Ya gotta let loose at least once in your life...

Edited by - on

KD4AO
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2007 : 11:42:36

Having a boat built to order is probably the ultimate experience as long as you are a good planner and don't mind the long wait. I personally don't have the patience or whatever to wait several months. Since 1973 I have purchase 2 new boats and now 2 used ones. New were 1973 Newport 30 and 1989 Hunter V 32, Used were 1989 Catalina 27 (2000) and now the 2003 Catalina 250 (2007). The new boats were nice, no wierd add-ons or modifications but as many friends told me then and now, you do pay a lot more. The Catalina 27 had a lot of little carpenter type mods which originally seemed like a good idea but as time went on they weren't what I wanted. I would still have it if not for hurricane Charley. The Catalina 250 has no mods or add-ons and except for some interior cleaning is like new, and was priced right. I have to say that I am most happy with this boat. The bottom line is for most people used is going to be the most bang for the buck as long as you are happy with the mods. New, well I like new cars too. Bob

Edited by - on

mhartong
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2007 : 16:51:17

It truly is amazing the iincrease in cost per foot as length of boat increases in size. When Rebecca and I were looking to purchase Persephone, amomg other things we considered was the price per foot.

The difference in price/foot between a new c250 (~$1600/foot) and a new 309 (~$3300/foot) is staggering Even the differece in price/foot between a c250 and a new 270 (~$2725) is amazing.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2007 : 17:31:47

I guess I should qualify "waste of money" in my eyes. If I could have purchased the new C270, I would have not hesitated. There is something about being the first aboard and knowing in advance how you will take care of the boat. However, we were lucky enough to find a 1985 standard rig/fin keel that is in tip top shape. We did do quite a bit to the boat over last summer, but mostly that was by choice and seemed appropriate in several cases. For example, when we stepped the mast to install a harken furler, we changed out the masthead sheaves for new, added a new windex (old one was long since gone), replaced the running light, and put on a new anchor light.

If my wallet could take the strain, a new boat would be fun. However, calmer heads usually prevail in situations like this and we will look for a used one when the time comes. So far, the C25 we have is a bucket load of fun. (pun intended

)

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 01:58:54

I went to the Tulsa show again today, this time I was with my older brother (by 2 years) and he has a 29ft bow rider (Regal 2004 model). His boat was on the chopping block at 127,000.00 and there was a used one on the boards that was the same year 2004 for 59,000.00. It almost would make me cry if I was loosing that much money on a boat per year.

He is wanting to downsize for a couple of good reasons. The first is that he would like to be able to trailer his boat from lake to lake. He is on Grand right now and at 19'-0" and a beam of 9'-2" and the weight being 8,000lbs it seems hard for him to have to buy a truck that is hefty enough to pull the boat, not to mention what kind of permits he would need to take the boat up to the lake.

We had a good look at several 23-25ft models that ranged from 47,000.00 to 97,000.00. the Cobalt was at the high end of the market with a Rinker and a Chaparral being at the lower end. We also took a look at the 25'-0" Formula at a cool 80,000.00 with their special 0% financing on a 20 year note it brought the boat in at 349.00 per month.

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KD4AO
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 07:40:43

Mark, the price/foot is astonishing but if you go price/pound I think the gape narrows quite a bit, especially if you take into consideration the more expensive accesories used on larger boats. Bob

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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 08:59:03

I have visions of asking the Catalina dealer for 6,000 lbs of sailboat and trim off the fat

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KD4AO
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Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 09:02:23

Good one Mike.

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