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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Who needs sleep when U got UTube

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ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/29/2007 : 01:13:16

Remember the Capri25 broach?
Here is big brother with casual commentary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rvf_SPfx1Y

Nadi ex-C25
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/enka
http://building-spindrift11s.blogspot.com/

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2007 : 06:49:34

Great post.
The best part of posting articles, like in this thread, is the discussion it causes.

When I showed Peggy the Volvo incident, she started to analyse the issue and asking what would we do in those circumstances.

I know that Peggy will be more comfortable knowing that we discussed the actions.

Now to practice .... how do I keep the boat on it's side with the rudder out of the water long enough to slowly and calmly go over the drill

I guess step one would be to hire a good divorce attorney

Paul

FWIW, I believe that when I install my backstay mod, it will increase the sail to backstay gap, however I'm pretty sure that with the standard backstay, the C250 mast wouldn't bend sufficiently for the mainsail to get caught on it.

Paul

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2007 : 07:22:52

hey Paul ,

did you put the backstay on the stern rail seat ?
I like that mod I thought I read in one of the posts
you wanted to do that .

Sean

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2007 : 11:33:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
Now to practice .... how do I keep the boat on it's side with the rudder out of the water long enough to slowly and calmly go over the drill

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Easy:
<ul><li>you find an area where ferry traffic causes 6-ft swells</li><li>tie your mast down to a big boat that drags you sideways at 3knts </li><li>ask them to spray you with the wash-down or prop wash</li><li>get beat on the head with a winch handle by the admiral (that would apply to me

)</li></ul><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">FWIW, I believe that when I install my backstay mod, it will increase the sail to backstay gap, however I'm pretty sure that with the standard backstay, the C250 mast wouldn't bend sufficiently for the mainsail to get caught on it.

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The mainsail in that case was caught on the running backstay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_backstay), which if I am not mistaken, runs from the middle of the mast to match the lower/inner headstay. You probably would not want one on a C25.

What amazes me is that there seems to be nothing they can release to get out of the situation. I am sure there must not be, as the official way out seems to be to "wait for something to give"

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2007 : 11:48:30

Those boats have three backstays. To running and one fixed. The running backstays keep the middle portion of the mast from buckeling. When you tack, you loosen the windward side, tack, then tighten the new windward side. A running backstay is the only way they could use a back stay on the old gaff rigged schooners. the boom was long, and hung past the stern of the boat, so they had a port and starboard backstay, used depending on what tack they were on. Cheers.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2007 : 12:09:35

I noticed that, after the broach, the spinnaker filled with water. It doesn't look like the wind was putting much stress on the spinnaker at that time, so, the weight of the water in the spinnaker must be what shredded it.

Also, in a broach, ordinarily you would let the spinn sheet fly, and that would stop the broach and prevent the sail from filling with water. Since they were sailing long distance, they might not have had a crewman tending the spinn sheet. The spinn sheet might have been cleated.

You have to wonder, too, if it was just a coincidence that the boat broached when the helicopter flew over.

Or, maybe boats are more likely to broach when a camera is aimed at them, as with the Capri 25.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2007 : 12:29:35

That is why I have a Bowie knive velcroed right inside the companionway. I'd a cut that sheet faster than you could spit. Even after the broach and the boat balanced, they could have cut it. Cheers.

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ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2007 : 12:48:08

Based on other videos the whole crew on these boats seems to be sitting on the transom when they are running. Also you can see one of the crew walking forward on the side of the deckhouse after the broach. So it is a safe bet nobody was on the bow.

While you could easily cut any of those lines (a polye... rope with that much load will cut like butter), keep in mind they are loaded with thousands of pounds (I remember an America's Cup race where one boat could not get the spinnaker all the way up before it filled and they could not move it the last two feet , the announcer said something about 11,000 pounds). A line with that much load will act like a weedwhacker if you cut it.

Don't know about a camera but our boat hits pilings and nav markers when people are watching.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2007 : 17:12:16

Boy - I look at that and think (hope) that I'd be able to let out the main sheet all the way and the boom would swing around full, spilling the wind, of course, I'd also let go the genoa sheet.

With my lack of experience, controlling a jibe is my biggest concern.

WOW

Edited by - jerlim on 01/29/2007 17:13:29

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2007 : 17:40:12

Hi Jerry, the problem is that the boat has a running backstay and it held the main in place. Normally you'd just let out the main and the boat would right up. CHeers.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2007 : 17:47:56

Does that mean they were unable to release the running backstay? I assume it was cleated on the leeward side. Maybe underwater???

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djn
Master Marine Consultant

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1561 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2007 : 18:18:35

It was tentioned on the windward side until the broach....then it instantly became the leeward side. If they let it go, the mast would have most likely snapped.....cool to watch on YouTube but no fun to deal with at sea. Cheers.

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bgkast
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2007 : 15:03:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ilnadi
 A line with that much load will act like a weedwhacker if you cut it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

True, it would sting, but would not cause serious injury. The "Mythbusters" on the Discovery channel tested this one out using steel cable.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2007 : 19:01:31

"The "Mythbusters" on the Discovery channel tested this one out using steel cable."

What the mythbusters wanted to see was if a recoiling a steel cable would cut someone in half. In their tests they found it wouldn't, at least if the body was allowed to recoil away from the blow. However, the amount of damage to their test dummy was substantial. I don't think a human would have survived the impacts they tested. There are quite a few accident reports documenting incidents where people have been killed or seriously injured by cable 'recoil'.

Sprecta and yachtbraid don't have a lot of mass and would be unlikely to cause major injury, but I sure wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of a high-speed line whip.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2007 : 20:13:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
Or, maybe boats are more likely to broach when a camera is aimed at them, as with the Capri 25.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ever sailed a Capri 25?

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5895 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2007 : 18:12:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Ever sailed a Capri 25?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yeah. They're fun to sail, but they make you pay for your mistakes.

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