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observations on the C34?

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2007 : 11:40:11

And Paul... Don't forget to subtract the days you sailed the 25 but probably wouldn't have bothered taking the bigger boat out because it would've been that much more of a hassle.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 01/24/2007 : 12:35:26

That's the way I used to convince myself that golf wasn't expensive. I looked at it on a unit cost basis. Take the cost of the round and divide it by the number of strokes. Boy did I have a low unit cost!

For me, and I have written this before. It comes down to just a few minor items in my desire for a larger boat: 1. Headroom 2: Larger V-berth 3: Enclosed head and 4: A better galley. I have also put this in priority order. I could live without 2-4 if I had number one...and so on. I love the 25, but I have some back problems that are exacerbated by stooping in the cabin. I am going to try and use the pop top this year when we are not sailing. Maybe this will solve number 1.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/24/2007 : 12:43:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cat1951
 ...I have some back problems that are exacerbated by stooping in the cabin. I am going to try and use the pop top this year when we are not sailing...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Have you installed the pneumatic strut kit from Catalina Direct? If you have back problems, don't lift the pop-top without it!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/24/2007 12:44:38

reuben
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Response Posted - 01/24/2007 : 15:00:16

I fully understand the overwhelming faithfulness to our 25-footers --they're terrific, affordable, versatile sailers, and I own not a single regret. What's happened in our case is that three seasons of sailing inland waters, sleeping aboard 15-25 nights per summer in a wide range of conditions, have whetted our appetite for extended cruising on bigger waters. We don't have ocean crossings in mind, but would like to spend chunks of time on Superior, Michigan and Huron; for that, and given that our sons are 16 and 19 and still want to accompany us, our 250 is, as Steve Martin used to say, "getting small." Therefore the question is which larger boat is seakindly, reliable, and affordable enough to be a realistic option. In short, we've viewing a big-boat purchase the way many people view buying a weekend cabin -- as a place to spend lots of time with family and friends. (Of course a cabin generally appreciates in value, while boats tend to do the opposite, but a 34-footer can be had for a quarter of the price of even a low-end lake place.) As for small boats "making the sailors," I agree with that too, but then adding nine feet doesn't disqualify you from knowing how to sail, negate your previous experience, or mark you as a snobbish climber. My motives are pure! he insisted, his eyes lingering a moment too long on her ample beam and impressive waterline...

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cat1951
Admiral

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Response Posted - 01/24/2007 : 15:14:49

Dave, the pneumatic struts are on my list for spring. Just hope it gets here soon.

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Renzo
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Response Posted - 01/24/2007 : 19:54:36

Ruben - I never meant to imply that a bigger boat was the mark of a social climber or a a yuppy-yachtsman, only that size alone can be seductively (or SEAductively) misleading when chosing an aquatic playmate.And that money alone is not the only consideration when chosing a boat. In your case (and I'm sure many others cases)it seems that you are chosing the right tool for the job and I'm sure your motives are chaste rather that crass. As for your attraction to an ample beam I've always been a bow man myself.

Edited by - Renzo on 01/24/2007 19:55:53

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/24/2007 : 21:49:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Renzo
 As for your attraction to an ample beam I've always been a bow man myself.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
...for me, it's the transom.

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crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
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Response Posted - 01/25/2007 : 10:11:18

We have never had a really big boat, they have mostly been between 23-25 feet. For a few glorious years, we sailed a gorgeous Cape Dory 30, "Lady", whom we loved dearly. The differences: upkeep, twice to three times what it costs for a 25. Everything is bigger, stronger, better built and a LOT more expensive. A boat of that size has systems. A real electrical system with charging capacity, shore power, and lots of gilhickies that you have to learn about and maintain. Pressure water. Guaranteed to go out someday and require maintenance (another system to learn about). So you go for months using the footpump till you figure it out and fix it. (so much easier to just go sailing and the foot pump is working fine) Real head facilities. More systems. Once one of our bronze sea cocks stuck closed and I didn't want to beat on it with a hammer so just left it till the next haulout. The admiral got to where she really liked her "little red bucket." Not so much pumping. (Our rule was pump it till you are certain it is clear, then 20 more pumps) Yes, this was in the ocean, not a lake.
There are lots of other things, diesel injectors to clean, impellors to replace, God, that mast is TALL, I forgot hot water and depending on where you live, winterization, but you get the idea. Plus, I used to park our Coronado 25 right up close to the beach whereas, the Cape Dory with the monthly payment, the financial investment, the insurance and all, well, let's just say it's a good thing swimming in saltwater is easy because I heard a litany of "can't we get in closer, it's such a long swim to the beach."

Oh, and the wife will tell you to this day that she has never felt as confident and comfortable with a boat as she did with our South Coast 23, Hull # 1. She could push it around, sail it in and out of the slip by herself (most times) and handle the sails. Now, as our ages advance, she finds the sails on the C25 to be a handfull.

I do not mean to discourage, not at all, the bigger boat sounds great. l only mean to point out that there are a lot of considerations involved. Not that I let any of those interfere with the Cape Dory.

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reuben
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Response Posted - 01/25/2007 : 11:58:20

I'll admit, systems are my most harrowing consideration when it comes to going large. Diesel operations, water heaters, plumbing -- that stuff is only appealing as long as it works. In some ways it seems wise to follow the Pardey model and put the money into a strong simple boat with a workable rig, oil lamps and a portable head with decent-sized holding tank.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
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531 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2007 : 14:13:31

I owned a Cal 36 for 26 years, lots of coastal and offshore sailing but lost the boat to IVAN in '04. I've owned my 250 for a year, it's great for the lake sailing I do now, love the boat, but I do miss the room and conveniences of the larger boat. I've looked at the Catalina 34 as a replacement for my Cal 36 and will probably get one when I move back to the coast, I've looked at many Cat 34s and it's a good boat for coastal cruising. Just depends on how you want to use the boat, that pretty much determines what size you need, tho "need" is a relative term.

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Stu Jackson C34
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Response Posted - 01/25/2007 : 14:59:05

Hi, bear, you're right, I'm here.

We moved up to a C34 in 1998, after 11 or 12 years with our C25. Cory wanted more space, and to be higher off the water, and who was i to argue?

Many of the comments had to do with singlehanding. I may have mentioned this here before, or somewhere else where I post regularly: I believe that many people do not move up to larger boats because of their "fear" of singlehanding, when, in fact, that's what they mostly actually do when they sail their own boats! Other than docking, who hasn't heard of the "guy" doing all the work? Of course, there are many, many couples who share the sailing, but many who don't. I believe that each of us single hands more than we care to admit.

The "trick" to singlehanding is an autopilot and a midships line for docking which doesn't require ever getting off the boast. This works great with dock with horn cleats, and not everyone has them. For those, I recommend a grapnel hook!

Our C25 taught me to single hand. Before we bought our Navico autopilot, I used John Lecher's self steering with a line from the mainsheet.

A larger boat just requires a bit more planning. The reason the C25 seems so "nimble" is that, first it is, and second, it's closer to the water. Just stand at the bow when things are quiet in the cockpit and you'll see the difference. Every time I stand at the bow on any boat, it always seems you're going much faster.

I had to learn how to do it, but I single hand our C34 without any problem. And I think anyone who sails a C25 can do it.

This website is great, and one of the reasons I keep coming back. The C36 site is great, too, but they have an email list where most of the goodies go, not like here, and our C34 website, where everything is "saved." Our C34 message board is as active as this one, and the rest of the website covers just about everything you'd ever want to know about the C34. The C36 guys and we exchange information regularly, since the boat systems are actually the same. The difference is the layout: aft head and larger V berth on the C34. The C34 has the largest V berth known to man. See www.c34.org. Read the FAQs and then click on Forum, scroll down to Message Board. You can guest or join, just like here.

A number of C25 folks have moved up, as we did, directly to the C34, without the C30 in between step. We're glad we did, since we looked at C30s and then spent a year finding our 1986 #224.

I must admit, though, that I still have my C25 stoop! I do walk around in the cabin straight up, but still stoop in the head, even though I could stand straight up!

Some say that "the amount of use a boat gets is inversely proportional to its length." Our goal has been to refute that, and in the past almost 9 years we've been very successful at that. We use her almost weekly and when I don't, you know how it gets... I've learned a lot about diesels, electrical systems and all the rest, and do all our own work, just installed a new alternator and regulator and a lot of rewiring. We've just about reached our goal: clean it, sail it, clean it, sail it -- do regular maintenance and have just about finished with anything we think we'll ever need on board.

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 01/25/2007 15:04:46

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 01/25/2007 : 19:02:12

Hey Stu,
Thanks for the info on the 34. I didn't realize that the Vee berth is bigger on the 34 than the 36. I'll check out the 34 website.

One of our club members bought a used Island Packet 38 which needs lots of work. He was looking for a good used set of sails. He says the Island Packet association is very good and supportive as someone in the association gave him his one year old set of sails, as he buys new sails every year. Life must be very, very good in Island Packet land.

Headroom is also a very big issue for 6'2" me

As far as stern, transom or bow preferences, I think it's all about the ride.

Edited by - on

Grego5
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2007 : 20:17:25

Great comments... Thanks for the info Stu. I'm in the planning stages of going big. I'm about 4 years off, with the added upkeep and slip fees I have to keep the payments managable. I keep thinking 34 to keep single handing managable, but I also like the 36 MKII. But I have'nt locked myself into a brand either.

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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2007 : 08:04:05

Stu - I know what you are saying about the permanent stoop. I just want to move up before it sets in.

Although I still hit my head on the curtain track for the head.

So much so that my stoop may get low enough to always miss it. I plan to take one of those foam pipe insualtion tubes and put it over the rail.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2007 : 10:54:15

Finally Discovered!!! The Use for The Stoop!!!

Only just occurred to me: when you move up to a bigger boat, it will most likely have a dodger. Get a boat with, or build a dodger that is. lower, rather than higher, because that way you can see over it when standing and not always have to look THROUGH it. Being outside and having to look through plastic all day is not my idea of being outside.

Anyway, if the dodger is low, you'll need to duck under it to head down below, and with you C25 stoop built-in, you'll hit your head much less often.

Actually works for us!

Enjoy, and if there are any more questions, please feel free to email me at mraquaq@aol.com

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5881 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2007 : 11:03:33

To me, the decision whether or when to move up to a bigger boat depends mostly on the amount of time you plan to spend on it and your sailing venue. When I had to work for a living and could only sail on a small, inland lake, a weekender was perfect. Now that I'm retired, I spend the entire summer on the boat, and currently sail the Chesapeake, and, if I can get both the boat and myself prepared for it, I'd like to take it to Florida and the Bahamas next fall. Although I still maintain my home in Ohio, it has been very inexpensive to live on the boat on the Bay.

When you spend that much time on a boat, and sail bigger waters, it isn't really an option - you need a bigger boat. I'm 64 and certainly no physical specimen, but it's not difficult to singlehand my C&C 35, and I could handle a 40 footer or more just as easily. The sails are bigger and heavier, but a bigger boat has more and bigger winches and tackle to help you raise and trim the sails. If you have to tack a lot (while singlehanding), you'll get tired quicker, but you learn to avoid those situations, and, since you're sailing bigger waters, instead of a small lake, that isn't difficult to do. Instead of tacking every mile, you stay on a tack for 4-5 miles. In short, sailing a bigger boat isn't particularly difficult - it's just different, and you have to adjust to the differences. For me, the biggest adjustment was learning how to get the boat in and out of the slip singlehanded, under diesel power. I had operated a diesel auxiliary before, but not very often or very recently, and it took about six tries to do it just right. After you've done it right once, you'll never have trouble again.

As long as your C25/250 meets your needs, there's absolutely no reason to move up, but, if your needs change, there are lots of very nice, affordable, older boats out there.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
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Response Posted - 01/26/2007 : 22:23:43

Reuben mentioned "it's like a small cottage."

I forgot to mention that's why we bought our C34.

Cory jokes: "I wanted him to buy me the house in Napa, in the California Wine (whine) Country, but at $500,000 for a studio apartment, he said we could get a two bedroom place with a living room and kitchen and bathroom/shower for 10% of that cost!"

Smart lady...

Edited by - on

Jack Heaston
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 01/28/2007 : 18:42:39

C34, C36, C25?
Guess I'll put my 2 cents in.
We had a 1987 C36 for a few years. Looked at the C34, but did not like what the aft head did to the interior, nor the mast in the middle of the saloon, and it was two feet smaller, for not a whole lot less money. The V-berth cabin on the 36 is truly luxurious. We did like the three opening ports on each side forward on the 34, since the only ventilation in the 36's V-berth was from the overhead hatch.
I heard two C34 owners complain about the raw water side of the engine cooling system needing to be primed after opening for cleaning the strainer or changing the impeller. Never a problem on our 36 and I can't imagine why it would be any different on the 34. A post on the C34 owner's forum might be enlightening.
Although it was a dream under power and easy to dock solo, I Finally parted company with the 36 after falling in love with singlehanding. The only sail controls accessible to the helm were the backstay tensioner and the POS Furlex (never again!) headsail furling line. I hate to depend on an autopilot when tacking, but had no choice while sailing alone. It always seemed to know when I was by myself.
Now, the C25 with all lines led aft, including a downhaul rigged on the hanked-on jib - now there's a singlehander's boat. Trailerable to Puget Sound, no inboard diesel and its attendant maintenance headaches, no complicated systems, OUTSTANDING support from the C25 Owner's Forum (What a great bunch!), and the boat lives here at the place under a tarp when I'm not sailing. I love it. But then I've been looking at this Aloha 32....
Jack
84 SR/FK #3944 "Oak Bay"

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

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USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2007 : 19:03:43

Sailed yesterday out on the Pacific again, this time looking for whales. And we found a small pod and tried to catch them but could not due to low wind speed...that's two weekends in a row and making plans for next weekend, and the next weekend (Feb 10) will be a race (hopefully) in San Diego bay as part of the Cortez Racing Association group. I just sent in my money there so looking forward to sailing my C25 against lots of other boats.
What the heck was I thinking about a bigger boat for???
As said above, it's easy to singlehand. I may singlehand race it, too! If you google earth Mission Bay and San Diego Bay, you will see that my boat, being in the closest Marina to the ocean off Mission Bay, has to go out and then around Pt. Loma and into San Diego Bay to go race those people. Then reverse heading home. I plan to sail/motor down Friday evening and either buy a slip at the coasties place or anchor in La Playa Cove near the venerable San Diego Yacht Club facility. Then race, then anchor or come home after the race ends.
Sure, the extra room would be nice but that much harder to singlehand as stated above.
I'm happy with what I have.

Maybe after I retire a bigger boat could become a reality.....

Edited by - gnorgan on 01/28/2007 19:05:13

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2007 : 20:35:05

Gary, all you need is to trade that keel in for a real one (fin) and you could Kick ass and take names--maybe even Jim's!

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2007 : 20:55:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jack Heaston
 ...Looked at the C34, but did not like what the aft head did to the interior...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Having spent a couple of nights on a C-34-II (in the aft berth) last summer, one thought I have about the aft head is that the natural airflow at anchor will exhaust the air from the head, rather than drawing it through the whole salon. When salt water is involved in flushing, there's just no getting around the odor. (My new boat will use the fresh water supply.) The mast never bothered me--it was at the corner of the table and could even be considered a handhold. The forepeak looked very spacious--can't compare it to the 36.

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 01/28/2007 : 21:38:08

A pole in the middle of the cabin could come in handy

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2007 : 09:29:59

...Says the single swinging guy.
Dude at my age I can't even get a girl to wear a bathing suit much less dance on a pole!

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CB
1st Mate

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54 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2007 : 16:39:25

I have been looking for the last 8-9 months for the right Catalina 30 or possibly 34 to come along. Over the last month of my search, I have developed a liking for the late 80's O'Day 322, does anyone have any experience/knowledge of this model? It seems like a lot of boat for the $$.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Chris
'81 sk/sr
#2672

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sdaly66
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2007 : 15:07:43

I just this very day put an offer on a C 34. Everything I have heard leading up to my decision has convinced me that this is the ONE boat in that size that I want.

Anybody in the market for a 250 WB? She's going on the block starting next week.

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