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Reefing Line Question

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/15/2006 : 22:04:24

As I go through our new C250 I am figuring things out as I go. Now working on the boom. There are four controls that I have found on the boom. The main sheet and the boom vang I understand just fine. There is also an outhaul that runs internal in the boom with a wire at the aft end that connects to the sail and a control line part way back on the boom into the cockpit.

The fourth control also runs in the boom - on the port sheeves, fore and aft. I believe it is the reefing line. It is damaged and needs replacement. It is 46' long. Can I assume that at that length it must go through a block at the bottom of the mast and lead back to the cockpit? There are two blocks on each side of the mast step.

Finally, there are unused internal sheeves on the starboard side of the boom. I assume this is for a topping lift. Correct? Is this a control you recommend? Looks like the PO just used a pigtail on the backstay. Thanks. Randy

We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2006 : 00:10:09

From another post of mine re reefing:

"I took the reefing line out of the boom. Now I run it from the cringle near the end of the boom, up through the first reef cringle, down to a small block attached to the pigtail shackle, then forward along the port side of the boom to a small block on the mast at the tack, up through the tack cringle, down to a block at the base of the mast, back to the reef clutch through another block. Now enroute reefing and unreefing is very simple, controlled entirely from the cockpit."

Hope this helps.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2006 : 06:43:35

Hi Randy,

Of the three sheaves on the aft boom end, the port sheave is the outhaul and is set up for a wire line section from the bail of a block within the boom. The center is used for the 1st reef clew and the starboard for a topping lift to be routed internally to the boom.

The Catalina supplied pigtail is not a good substitute for a topping lift. It is a boom restrainer used while the main is not set. Once the main is set, using the pigtail is a significant safety concern as with it cleated, the boom is not free to run out and spill the power of the main. A topping lift however wont restrain the boom and allows the main sheet to be eased to depower the main.

It should not be too hard to realize that if the pigtail were connected with the main aloft and a thunder head produced sudden winds, that the boat would soon be out of control with no way to ease the main out.

In the picture below, the topping lift as shown can be routed either to a cleat on the starboard side of boom or to the cockpit.

btw, here is an interesting story about the use of such a pigtail. During a North Channel cruise, we anchored on the other side of an island from a group of trailer sailors we planned to join the next day. They departed and we took chase and after a short time caught the trailing boat who was considerably slower than his fleet. We eased close to have a word with the skipper who was frustrated that his boat wasn't moving like he wished. Yep, the pigtail was restraining the main from easing to trim for the broadreach.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 11/16/2006 07:24:36

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2006 : 13:41:28

I have a 250wk #408. There was no pigtail supplied with the boat? Is this a feature added later:

Thanks.

Edited by - on

welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2006 : 14:58:49

My boom is set up differently than Arlyn's:

The center sheave is used for the outhaul with a wire rope that comes from the clew on the main sail, goes through the center sheave, runs inside the boom, then around the center sheave on the forward end of the boom which routes the line back (stays inside the boom) and exits on the port side through a jam cleat.

Note: It converts to a line somewhere after it leaves the aft sheave inside the boom (I haven't take it apart to see). I think the wire rope runs to a block then a line dead ends inside the boom goes through the block, attached to the wire rope, then forward to the center sheave, then back and out of the port side of the boom to the jam cleat. It may be similar to System 1 on this [url="http://www.mauriprosailing.com/Harken/Harken-Trimming-Systems/Outhaul-Systems.htm"]outhaul link[/url] only the line runs all the way to the forward center sheave in the boom then back to the jam cleat on the port side of the boom. I think this makes it a 2:1 outhaul system? I wish it was more like System 3 on the above link to give more power to the outhaul. The jam cleat for the outhaul is about 1/3 the way aft on the port side of the boom from the gooseneck. Everthing on this outhaul system is internal in the boom except for the wire rope that exists at the rear sheave and leads to the clew of the main sail and the line that exists on the port side of the boom to a jam cleat to control the outhaul.

The port sheave is used for the first reef, after the line dead ends on the boom it goes through the reef cringle in the sail (from port to starboard), then through the port sheive inside the boom, out the forward port sheave inside of boom, down through a turning block on port side of mast, up through the reef cringle on the luff (from port to starboard), down to a turning block at the base of mast (starboard side), through deck organizer then back to the starbord rope clutch.

Note: I have mine set up for single line reefing. When I set the reef the sail is pulled down at the tack and down and back at the clew by the reef line and the "extra sail" lays on the port side of the boom. When you let the main sail down to reef, you stop lowering the main sail when the luff cringle is about 10" above the boom. Then when you bring in the reef line, it tensions the luff, and the luff cringle ends up just above the boom and it brings the clew reef cringle back and down to the boom (be sure and let the main sheet out when you bring in the reef line so the boom is free to move in relation to the sail). You will have to practice some reefs to see exactly where to stop lowereing the main sail. I mark my main halyard at the cockpit so I know how far to let the halyard down then lock the rope clutch (I made a mark on the halyard when it gets to the rope clutch I know to cleat it off there).

Note: I have not set up the second reef point as of yet. I would need to add some hardware to acheive the second reef.

The starboard sheave is not used, as I do not have a topping lift. My boat is set up with a boom kicker. There is another jam cleat on the starboard side of the boom (opposite the jam cleat noted above used by the outhaul). I believe this is where the topping lift would have exited the boom if it was still used? The topping lift line then would have ran through the starboard sheaves in the boom?

Hope some of this helps.

Edited by - welshoff on 11/16/2006 15:14:33

JohnMD
Navigator

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USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2006 : 15:16:09

Can someone please explain something to me. I understand the point of a topping lift is to keep the boom from dropping to the deck when the mainsail is lowered. If that's so, I don't understand why everyone goes to all the trouble to make it adjustable with cleats and pulleys.

My topping lift has a caribiner tied to the end of it. When we put the boat together, we hang the boom on the mast and hook the carabiner to the other end. It's just long enough so the boom hangs as far as the sail will let it. When we stop for the evening, I wrap the topping lift around the back of the boom one time and it gets it up and out of the way. Am I missing something?

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2006 : 19:14:13

"...I don't understand why everyone goes to all the trouble to make it adjustable with cleats..."

Mine came equipped that way from the Catalina factory. It's adjustable 'cause on a broad reach it's loose and tends to slap against the leach of the main.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2006 : 20:57:01

Thanks folks. Arlyn, the diagram is very helpful. Wil, my setup is like yours with the outhaul on the center sheeve. How do you like the boom kicker? Does it make it harder to put up the poptop?

Edited by - on

welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2006 : 22:35:25

Randy,
The boom kicker does not interfere with the pop top or cover at all. It is in located in front of the boom vang, runs on the same angle. Here are a couple of pictures of the set up.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2006 : 00:06:04

Wil, where did you get the kicker? Any particular model #?? I like the idea and simplicity of a kicker. Randy

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2006 : 06:36:16

A topping lift may be fixed or adjustable. There are some advantages of an adjustable.
<ul><li>at normal topping lift height, the boom doesn't provide standing headroom in the cockpit, with an ajustable lift it can be raised while at anchor</li><li>it allows the boom to be set higher during reefing so that the clew reefing line doesn't have to lift the boom to the reef position , easing the reefing process</li></ul>

btw, hull numbers prior to my #224 either did not have a cleat on the starboard side of the boom for a topping lift or mine was forgotten. I milled the slot and added the cleat after the first outing.

Some day sailors rarely reef while underway, choosing to do so at the dock. A cruiser doesn't have such luxury and should have an adjustable topping lift located near the other lines used to effect reefing. Not wanted is a halyard and reef line aft to cockpit and then have to go on the coach roof to adjust the topping lift forward on the boom. Choose one place or the other, but don't have lines both places.

All of my lines are at a starboard position near the mast where a short teather allows access to the halyard, all reef lines and topping lift.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 11/17/2006 06:40:11

welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2006 : 10:16:23

Randy,
My boat came with the Boomkicker when I bought it, but here is the model #K0750. I really like it and no topping lift to mess around with. It is also very easy to remove when setting the boat up for travel. Just lift the boom up (boom fitting just slides out) and pull one pin on the mast (removes kicker for travel). See links for more information - there are probably more places on the web if you search for them:

[url="http://shop.catalinaowners.com/detail-bk.htm?fno=20&cart=1163778322122857"]Catalina Owners Web Site[/url]. After further review, they have a specific model listed for the C250 at this chandlery.

[url="http://www.boomkicker.com/Bk_specs.htm#750/1000/1500"]Boomkicker Web Site[/url]

Here is a photo from the boomkicker website of a C250:
[url="http://www.boomkicker.com/Cat250.jpg"]Link to C250 Photo[/url]

Note: it does a great job of holding the boom up while reefing or setting/dousing sail. When no sail is set, the boom will move around a bit (side to side), even with the mainsheet drawn tight. It will move down and away from you if you push on it with no sail up - like when you are going forward or lashing the main sail to the boom - you have to watch yourself a little. I have a pigtail I connect to the back stay from the end of the boom when I don't have any sail set or when putting the boat up at the dock. It is not much effort to tie the boom off when not sailing/setting the main sail.

Edited by - welshoff on 11/17/2006 10:26:14

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2006 : 11:46:41

At 200 bucks a pop with shipping, I've got better uses for the dough. My topping lift works just fine. Also, with the Boomkicker I wouldn't be able to mount my Boombunk for sleeping above deck. Different strokes for different folks ;-)

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cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2006 : 20:35:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Raffel
 I have a 250wk #408. There was no pigtail supplied with the boat? Is this a feature added later:

Thanks.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Our '97 #253 had a pig tail. We only used it for keeping the boom out of the way when not underway. Arlyn's right - it definitely shouldn't be used while sailing.

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