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truck to pull C-25?

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monty0
1st Mate

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USA
51 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/22/2006 : 18:37:07

Hi! We just bought a '77 C-25 #165 Swing Keel! We hauled it back with a U-Haul and now have to find a truck to pull it with. Anybody out there know what the actual weight of the C-25 is? What the tongue weight is?

I'm looking at an '88 Ford f250 with a 351 motor and wondering if it's going to be able to haul it properly.

Any recommendations on trucks to look out for? We're looking for an older truck to fit in our budget...something pre-'95 probably. We'll only put about 1000 miles on it a year.

Thanks,

Monty

Monty

1977 Catalina 25 #66 SRSK "Prana"

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2006 : 19:29:38

Hi Monty,

Congratulations on your new boat!

I'm no expert on towing vehicles, but I have towed my boat twice with a Ford F-250, and it did a great job ... it has a diesel engine though. You can expect a C-25 to weigh around 6000# ... 'depends on how much stuff you have on board.

There are quite a few of our members who can help you with specifics about towing vehicles, tongue weight, etc. Two names come to mind in particular ... Bruce Bott (aka ClamBeach) and Larry Charlot (aka lcharlot) both know a lot about towing vehicles, so maybe one or both of them will respond.

Welcome to the group ... you're going to love your boat!

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2006 : 19:50:48

A 250 will be just fine. The engine is the least important thing in the equation. The weight of the vehicle is paramount to prevent the boat from pushing the truck and getting rid of sway. My 88 wing tips the scale at 7500 lbs. A swing will be a few hundred lighter but not much. Make sure the brakes on the trailer and truck are in perfect working order. That is the most important thing. If the trailer brakes need work, consider a complete changeout to disk. I have kodiak vented disks on a single axle and they have been trouble free for 3 years. All the parts are hot-dipped and super easy to wash out. I towed the boat from Fl to Wa over the Rockies witout issue.

I like a lot of tounge weight and keep mine at 600-700 lbs. The more you have the more stable the boat will be. That works only if the rear suspension can carry it. Again, an f-250 should be fine. If you have questions, take the prospective vehicle for a test-drive with the boat to be sure before you buy it.

Tom.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2006 : 22:06:46

When I bought my 81 C25 all I did was hook it up to my GMC 2500. PO did a lot of towing so it seemed that all the weight distribution issues had been worked out.
I have two tow bars that fit into my tow receptacle - one is straight and the other has a three inch drop. I tried them both and the one with the three inch drop made the trailer look more level, so that's the one I use. One of my first stops with the trailer was to a brake shop where the guys there gave their opinions. They agreed that the drop hitch was better.
I looked into hauling my boat with a U-Haul and was told that towing a trailer in excess of 4,000LBs was in violation of their terms and conditions of rental.
If I could find a truck rental company that would allow me to tow my C25, I'd sell my truck in a heart beat. Love that truck, but its too big for everything other than towing the boat.

Welcome to the group.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2006 : 23:59:53

I pull with a 91 F250 extended cab now and it works well. The brakes are the most inportant on both the tow vehicle and the trailer. Having both axles with brakes on the trailer are important. Checking the actual capacity of the trailer tells you alot. Also I have broken an automatic C6 transmission because I didn't shift into low for a hard climb from a stand still, you have only 3 square inches of clutch in drive and 13 square inches in low. My transmission man told me this after the repair.
An automatic needs the largest transmission cooler besides the one that comes with a tow package. Congratulations on your boat, welcome to the forum.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2006 : 08:36:52

Congrats! I'm pretty new here too, but not to sailing. If you want to tow with a truck, that's fine. My preference is to have something else to drive at my destination and a Grand Cherokee V8 works well for me. I bought a used 1999 (small overhead cam V8 introduced around that time) and it is completely satisfactory. My feeling is that while trucks are durable, most older trucks have been used as trucks while most SUV's, even with tow packages, have mostly gone to the grocery and on vacation with a bike rack in the receiver.

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esailor
Navigator

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USA
118 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2006 : 09:26:33

I use a suburban with the heavy duty rear end. When I brought the boat home the trailer brakes were not functioning well at all if at all and the suburb stopped it even on hills. Towing was easy and I had plenty of power and stability. I have towed many trailers as well as a car hauler. The C25 behind the suburban was a piece of cake after I got over the intimidating size back there. I will be hauling out in November.

Pete

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danandlu
Navigator

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USA
174 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2006 : 09:44:47

No problems with 01' Silverado 1500 4x4 Xcab, short box, 5.3 V8, 3.73 axle ratio. I wouldn't want any longer (lower numerically) axle ratio or shorter wheelbase. Towed from Denver to Missoula, 900 + miles, 2 passes, & plenty of wind through Wyoming & E. Montana. Max speed for me was about 65-7, no signs of wobble. The trailer (Trail Rite, original w/boat?) does have brakes on all 4 wheels, I think that is important, once they engaged the trailer did most of the braking.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2006 : 15:05:32

To me tow vehicle selection depends on the type of driving and distance to be traveled. I pulled my new 1988 C25 from the dealer in Milwakee WI to Houghton MI, about 600 miles, with a borrowed 84' F150 351ci 4x4. No problem at all including at freeway speeds. Since then I've pulled it from my yard to the launch ramp and back - 3 miles total,with a Silverado 1500 4x4 with 305 V8. For this application I probably didn't need four wheel drive. This year I decided to get a new truck so I bought a GMC 2500 HD so I can tow to the nationals next year. I really hemmed and hawed about four wheel drive and the heavy duty aspect. I really don't need either to tow the boat but its nice to have here in snow country. Now I'm thinking of selling the new truck, buying a bigger boat, and going back to driving a sedan of some type.

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tidesailer
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2006 : 21:14:18

well to aid to the question , I have a 1995 F150 with the 4.9 6 cylinder wich has been used for alot of towing with a standard transmission. I hop this will pull my fin keel c25. can I get some adivse thanks...Don

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sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2006 : 22:10:28

Your asking a lot. You can probably pull it but how far, how many grades and do you have brakes. Brakes on a F150 are not enough for safe stopping and it's done a lot of towing. Boat trailer brakes working? How much experience do you have trailering? Do you check tires and keep them at the correct pressure? Dress good just incase you make the 6 o'clock news. Read the threads about tow vehicles and preparing to tow of the Forum members and good luck.

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 07:40:38

A C-25 with tanks full and the usual load of cruising gear aboard can tip the scales at 7000# for an older swing keel, or as much as 8500# for a wing keel with inboard diesel (weight includes trailer of course). Most any 3/4 ton pickup truck or Van from Ford, Dodge, or GM should be adequate. These all have 5.7 liter (or larger) V8 engines, big brakes, heavy duty driveshafts and axles, etc. For maximum stability and resistance to jacknifing in a panic stop situation, I recommend a long-wheelbase model. If you can afford it, a diesel engine is really nice and will pay you back in fuel savings after a few years. The diesel also has the benefit of much better engine compression braking on downgrades. My personal preference is for manual transmission on a tow vehicle: more durability and reliability than an automatic, better fuel economy, and a reasonable expectation that it will last 200,000 miles without blowing up. If you get a diesel, I would particularly recommend you not get an automatic; the high torque at low RPM's that diesels produce tears up most automatic transmissions. The Allison transmission offered on Chevy diesels may be an exception as it was purpose-designed for diesel service, but I am not a GM owner and don't know that much about them. My own tow vehicle is a '98 Dodge Cummins diesel, regular cab long bed 2WD, with a 3.54 posi rear axle and 5-speed manual transmission. It gets 13 to 15 mpg towing the boat, and has been rock solid reliable except for the air conditioning which has broken twice in 64,000 miles.

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 11:40:44

My C25 (SK/SR) weighs round 6,300 on the axles of an EZ loader, with stuff, including the Yamaha 9.9. Don't know the tongue weight, but it's in excess of 500.

Tow with old Ford (1978) 250 with 460 V8, but have pulled the boat with engines as small as a 318 Dodge. The engine size is not nearly as crucial to me as the stopping capability; too small/ light of a tow rig and you are asking for trouble if you have to stop quickly.

Gary B.
s/v Encore! #685

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Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2006 : 12:52:09

Most of the issues have been covered, but I'll chime in with my experience or thoughts.

The previous (first) owner of Heartbeat did quit a bit of towing. Even one run from Colorado to Florida with a 6 cyl 1/2 pickup - but as he said "it was all downhill."

By the time I bought the boat, the trailer was in horrible repair, so he wouldn't even sell it to me. When I moved to Michigan, I bought a new trailer with dual axles and dual disc brakes. Great trailer.

The C25 weighs 4500lb bare, and my trailer weighs 1500. Call the combination 6k at the least, and since I trailer sails, gear, etc. I expect I tip the scale at about 6500, maybe 7k.

I have towed this rig with a variety of tow vehicles from an old 305cid 1/2 ton p/u to a 3500 duallie with 7.5L turbo diesel. In general, the small truck would pull it, but it was a challenge for both the truck and me. I was able to do all the "around town" stuff I needed for several years. Needless to say, the turbo diesel duallie towed like a dream.

If I were to buy a truck with the intent of towing semi-long distances, I think you have the right idea. Look for a 1 ton with a 350cid (5.8L) engine. That is probably about the smallest that will comfortably pull a C25, and anything bigger will be fine. Of course, everyone else's notes about brakes, compression, and transmission condition also apply.

Good Luck.

Matt Q. in Detroit

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tmhansen
Captain

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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2006 : 00:24:05

I'm certainly not an expert. The only thing I would add is for me 4 wheel drive was a must. On tidal ramps I have seen many times trucks and even motor homes strugle to get traction to pull the boat and trailer up the ramp.

Even 4 wheel drive could not help me this past winter though. We keep the boat on the trailer at the side of the house. It was time to launch for Thanksgiving and the lighted boat parade. I hooked up the Suburban put it in 4 wheel and moved slowly forward and then stopped. I asked my son who was standing off to the side what was going on. He said all four wheels were spinning on the wet clay soil. Fortunately we have another 4x4, a relic of our Hobie cat beach launch days. With a tow strap I had my wife in the street pulling the Suburban and the boat forward. She had to put the little truck into 4 low to get things moving. It worked and we got the boat out of the side yard. The trailer plowed ruts at least 6 inches deep in the damp clay soil.

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Daren
1st Mate

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USA
81 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2006 : 15:08:38

My C-25 is 4600 lbs. This includes the inboard engine. I did look into this also and my Jeep Commander will pull up to 11K.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2006 : 15:26:31

Daren: do you know how much your trailer weighs? What brand is it and is it roller style?
When I pull my C25 out of the lake, I'm going to take it over to a nearby weigh station.

thx
Mike

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monty0
1st Mate

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USA
51 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 11:55:08

Thanks for all the help! I ended up finding an enormous truck--a Chevy 3500 HD crew cab with a 454 in excellent shape for $5500. It's a rediculous thing to drive around town, but I console myself knowing it will only be used 1-2,000 miles a year. A $1000 later it'll have new tires and a proper towing setup and we'll be ready to go.

Monty

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Doug C.
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 13:01:38

I've had my boat/trailer on a scale. With gear on board it came in at 8000 lbs. Stripped down it was 7200. This is for a 1990 with wing keel and Trailrite roller trailer.

Something to note is that with all gear aboard the tongue weight was 1200 lbs. This exceeds the ratings for most receivers/hitches.

Daren, I think you need to verify your numbers. I'm sure that inboard diesel you have is going to come in heavier than my boat.

We all need to give some thought to tow ratings on our vehicles and not forget about the tongue weight.

I bought a F250 with diesel specifically to tow the boat. It does a great job. I am within all of the ratings for the truck except for tongue weight. I should be using a weight distributing hitch or upgrade my receiver to a class V with high tongue weight capacity.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 17:39:50

I've got some old posts floating around on my trailer weight... but as I recall, it was around right around 6,400 lbs. (Swinger and EZ loader roller trailer). About 600 lbs of that was on the hitch... which is just about right.

Doug C wrote --- >"with all gear aboard the tongue weight was 1,200 lbs."

IMHO: That's a bit high for an 8,000 lb tow. I was taught to load for 10% of the gross wt. on the hitch. More probably doesn't hurt... up to the point of overloading your hitch or altering the balance of your vehicle.

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Doug C.
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2006 : 18:13:11

Bruce,
I agree the tongue weight should be fine if it were around 800 lbs for my setup. I'd be able to gain some if I moved the two spares and the tongue extension.

Either way though I am over my receiver rating for max tongue weight without weight distributing bars.

The 1200 weight was road ready with probably too much stuff in the forward dumpster (V-berth). Really suprised me when I put it on a scale.

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Cloudveil
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2006 : 16:17:01

I pulled my '89 C25 wing with 2000 Ford Expedition 5.7 gas engine & trailer towing package. Trailer has surge drum brakes on one axle.
Package towed & handled fine, (over the sierra's), but slow on the
steep uphills. The only accomidation was I used premium gas, which
helped.

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Megsskipper
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2006 : 23:30:07

don't tow my boat, but...not to worry Monty...nice move...that truck will pull Alaska through the pipeline...enjoy!

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At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2006 : 11:47:19

Monty...you will love the dually. I pull a 14k 5th wheel with a Duramax diesel dually, I look in the mirror once and a while to be sure it's there, pulls like a dream. even up hill.

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2006 : 10:25:10

Probably replying late to the question, but I have 94 Suburban, Silverado to tow osmepneo. When I bought the truck I checked tow weight recommendations on posted literature from edmunds.com, and that gave me a number, I don't remember what, but remember it it was well above the boat/trailer weight. So far I have only towed a few times, a mile and half from home to the marina I launch at. But it works great.

Edited by - on

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