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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

possible new owner

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Glenn Durnford
Deckhand

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Canada
3 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/23/2006 : 20:52:35

greetings from canada...
i am looking at a late 70's c25 and i have a couple of questions .
the boat is a fixed keel model and the owner states it also does not have a pop top. most boats i see listed are swing keels with pop tops. how uncommon is the one i'm looking at and what is the head room in this version?
also are there any model specific items i should be looking for when inspecting the boat for the first time?
thanks
glenn

Edited by - on

Jmurfy
Navigator

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USA
176 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2006 : 22:08:37

Glenn,
I recommend you get a survey before purchasing the boat if your really interested.

Edited by - on

Glenn Durnford
Deckhand

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Canada
3 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2006 : 06:20:10

thanks for the tip... i had planned to do so after the initial lookover (provided all was to my liking) any specific defects or trouble areas i should be looking out for? any idea if the fixed keel no pop top is common? (maybe they shipped these to canada only?
any info you can share will be appreciated.
glenn
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jmurfy
 Glenn,
I recommend you get a survey before purchasing the boat if your really interested.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2006 : 07:00:21

I recommend a survey only if the price of the survey is less than 7% of the price I am willing to pay for the boat. You can easily survey yourself out of a few feet of boat. It is best to make an offer pending survey results and then adjust your offer accordingly.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2006 : 07:10:10

Hi Glenn,

To answer your question, non-pop-top models are very rare. As far as I know though, the headroom on a non-pop-top model is identical to that of a pop-top model with the pop-top down. Unless you're about 5'8" or less, you'll be doing some stooping when standing in the salon. Also, most of us never sail with the pop-top raised, and then only in very mild sailing conditions ... that makes having a pop-top a moot point when under sail.

The C-25 is a great value, providing it is in decent shape. Personally, I love the pop-top feature because it really opens up the salon when in the slip or at anchor. I wouldn't want a non-pop-top model, but some people prefer them ... 'different strokes ...

'Hope that helps. Feel free to ask as many questions here as you can think of ... there are some really knowledgeable sailors here. Keep us posted, and good luck in your search!

Edit: 'Misspelled Glenn ... oops

Edited by - Buzz Maring on 08/24/2006 07:11:23

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2006 : 08:14:52

Welcome, Glenn... You came to the right place! I, too, loved the pop-top for sitting at the dock or on the hook--more headroom and a lot more air. I would say the value of that boat, compared to most other C-25s on the market, is significantly diminished because of that (and will be when you try to re-sell her).

One key area with the pre-1984 (or '83?) fin keels is the keelbolts. The keel itself in those earlier years is cast iron, and while it shows rust and maybe some pitting, there's enough metal there to last for another couple of centuries... However, the bolts that hold it to the hull are mild steel, and prone to serious corrosion. If it's bad, the solution is drilling and tapping the cast iron for additional bolts--generally a job for a pro with some serious equipment. Later models (I think starting around 1984) have fiberglass-encased lead keels attached with stainless steel bolts.

This is maybe the best example of why you want to get the boat surveyed. Even if it costs more than 7% (meaning your paying less than $5000), consider the possibility that a major issue will cost you more to fix than the boat is worth, and you might not be able to give the boat away without doing it. The fin-keeled C-25 makes a pretty big lawn scupture! Making the offer contingent on a survey is very common, and by the way, many or most insurance companies want to see a survey before they'll cover an older boat--I'd check on that, and then if you like the deal, get the survey.

Good luck in your quest!

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2006 : 08:45:12

Hi Glenn, if you get the serial numbers off the boat, you can call Catalina and they will give you the back ground on the boat. I bought mine without a survey, but I got it for the cost of a survey so I thought "what the heck". Cheers and welcome. p.s., I am not sure there is another website that suppost anything as this one does so you will always be able to get your questions answered.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2006 : 12:04:55

Welcome Glenn.

You will get lots of opinions and insight into a potential boat if you post pictures or provide a seller's link.

If you want a C25, don't get hung up on one particular boat unless its a spectacular buy. There are lots of them for sale. I looked at a couple in Canada but bought mine in Bellingham Wa. Importing is easy, all you have to do is show up at the border with a bill of sale and enough money to pay the GST.

Where will you sail this boat?

Don't hesitate to ask any questions that will help you get the best boat for your bucks.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2006 : 12:20:36

The poptop is a devisive topic. I almost never open one and virtually never see one open. It is possible that Canada is enough cooler that opening up your cabin would be nice but here our summers are so hot that airconditioning is common on our boats. The lack of a poptop affords some rigging options that others do not have including a cabintop traveler. A fin is a more stable boat where we sail. Our docks are built such that a swing must be raised at least half way at the slip and the boats are tippy to walk around on. I think the fin is the best of the best for sailing as well. The late 70's boats are not on my preferred list but that is not to say that there are not a lot of them out there that are splended examples of the Catalina 25. I prefer the 82 and newer because of the fuel locker location and the lead keel, but that simply refects my own preference and does not mean I would not buy an older boat if it "spoke to me".

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 08/24/2006 12:22:54

Jasonconradt
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2006 : 12:32:26

Not saying this is right for your circumstance or boat, but I didn't get a survey and it really came down to economics. Paid $4000 for the boat, surveyors in the area wanted $500+ to check it out in additional to the haulout fee (about $120). Instead, I took a knowledgeable boat owner along after carefully reading nearly every darn post on this forum and most of the guides. I've also been around boats most of my life (altho away from them for nearly 15 years).

Did we catch everything in that initial 4 hour perusal and voyage? No we sure didn't but it was enough to confirm the price was reasonable relative to the condition of the boat. If you're not comfortable evaluating and cannot find somebody to assist, you should probably hire a professional. Also note there are varying levels of surveys, from a rudimentary check ("yep, she floats") to a very detailed list of things to address. Bear in mind it's unlikely you'll find a boat that old that doesn't need a lot of work. Just make sure the fundamentals are sound (read the guides here) and there aren't any major issues that will interfere with the reason you purchase a boat in the first place - to have fun and sail!.

Just my $.02, best wishes with your search.

(Oh and btw, I wouldn't consider a boat without the poptop, but then again at 6'3", my stature warrants the extra headroom.)

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2006 : 12:37:15

Hi Glenn, if you are near Windsor ONT, I'd go with you to have a look. Cheers.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2006 : 13:20:57

When I bought my boat, I didn't care whether it had a pop-top or not. Now that I know better, I wouldn't buy one without it.
If all you're going to do is sail, then you won't miss it. But if you spend a lot of time on the hook, as we do, then you'll find it to be one of the best non-sailing features of the C-25.
In the hot months, the increased air-flow is important (especially if you're in Southern Ontario) and in the cooler months we enjoy the pop-top cover, which adds light and space to the cabin.

Edited by - on

Jmurfy
Navigator

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USA
176 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2006 : 16:40:52

I really like having the pop-top, especially when I have friends on the boat. It essentilly changes the feel of the boat to having a truely comfortable salon.
One thing I do miss having is a trailer. If I was starting over that would be a priority for me along with the fin, roller furling, pop top and 4 stroke motor that I already have and really like.

Edited by - on

DanM
Captain

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USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2006 : 19:40:55

Hi Glenn,
If you are in the Niagara peninsula I can recommend a good surveyor.
As for the poptop, I haven't found any need, even though I must stoop. We get enough breeze from the forward hatch. We don't have any screens and would not want to do an overnight with the poptop up without screens. Too many bugs.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2006 : 20:24:56

Here in the land of eternal winter (Humboldt Bay Ca) I've never had the pop-top up... god only knows what's growing under the seal.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2006 : 21:17:34

Our pop top goes up about once or twice a season. I am six feet tall and would love to have the headroom, but you cant really sail with it up, at least not well and not safely, and I rarely do anything on the boat where standing would be a requirement.

Not a big dealmaker or breaker for me.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2006 : 09:41:28

Well Glenn, I have a 78 C25 with both the fixed fin keel and without a poptop. I am 6'1" and have been on boats with the poptop and without. My general sense of the topic is you do not miss what you never had. I can honestly say I have never had an issue with the lack of additional headroom becuase the only time I am standing in the cabin is when I am walking around, which isn't much given the size of the boat. When doing an overnighter the extra room afforded by the poptop is nice because you can stand while cooking but I can pull my hatch back and stand at the stove anyway. I wouldn't rule out a boat becuase it did not have a poptop. You might be able to use the lack of a poptop as a price bargaining tool though. I'd be more concerned with the state of the sails, standing rigging and outboard. That is where your investment can go up quickly. Good luck.

Edited by - on

Glenn Durnford
Deckhand

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Canada
3 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2006 : 18:24:05

everyone, thanks for all the tips, in the end when i went to see the boat in question i was sadly disappointed by a boat that had been abandoned and not properly stored a few years ago...you know the story.
anyway on a better note i may have found another one a 1983 with swing keel and pop top. it appears to be well equipped however now i have a question about the swing keel....are they problematic? are there mainainance issues etc.
any advice will be appreciated.
glenn

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2006 : 20:48:02

" are there mainainance issues etc."

In freshwater, they work fine and the maintenance is pretty minimal. That said, there are some items to check.

1) Keel pivot hinges and keel pin - (check fitment for loose pin or hinges)
2) Turning ball.(prevents cable from sawing hull) - Check/lube every few years.
3) Keel cable - change every 5 or 10 years in freshwater.
4) Keel cable fitting - check (upgrade to new style fitting)
5) Winch - clean and check periodically

That's about it...

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2006 : 06:35:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 " are there mainainance issues etc."

In freshwater, they work fine and the maintenance is pretty minimal. That said, there are some items to check.

1) Keel pivot hinges and keel pin - (check fitment for loose pin or hinges)
2) Turning ball.(prevents cable from sawing hull) - Check/lube every few years.
3) Keel cable - change every 5 or 10 years in freshwater.
4) Keel cable fitting - check (upgrade to new style fitting)
5) Winch - clean and check periodically

That's about it...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Except he's looking at a fixed keel Clam

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2006 : 07:42:50

Hi Duane, if you look at his last post, he passed on the non pop top and is now looking at a pop top with swing keel. Cheers.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2006 : 07:44:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Except he's looking at a fixed keel Clam<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
'WAS'

Paul

Edited by - on

Admin
Forum Admin

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460 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2006 : 15:41:20

In that case.....what clam said

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