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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Spin Pole, Twings

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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/11/2006 : 16:06:22

Another question:

1. Where do you store your spin pole when racing upwind? Do you have a lower (2nd) car at the bottom of the mast, or do you attach elsewhere?

I'm storing mine off-race with one end attached to the S shroud and the other end sitting between bow pulpit stancions. Thinking I might make the foredeck's life a bit easier and rig an attach point at the base of the mast.

2. Re the spin pole topping lift, do you run this to the cockpit (as the Catalina diagrams show) or on the mast? What cleating system do you use?

Mine's out the S base of the mast, comes up thru a fairlead then to a horn cleat. I dont have any real objections to the horn cleat other than it seems slow for the foredecker. Wondering about coming around a turning block then back down to a cam cleat....

3. Twings. You run 'em? What hardware do you use and where do you put the lower blocks?

We have YET to get the kite under control during a race. DOH! Seems to be less of an issue when we do it pre- or post-race, tho still sometimes sloppy. Race pressure? Maybe, tho the trimmer is a pretty experienced J/80 guy. Most of the courses we've tried the kite on had short downhill runs, so not much time to get our act together and make use of the big chute. We'd have prob been better off to go kiteless. But we're still attempting it because we need the practice (obviously!).

We got 4th/9 last week, but at least we beat the boat that's normally #1. :) Guess they're right, the key is to make fewer mistakes than the other boat. Which is why we need to get the spin under control!

Thanks!
Jim
#183 - Team Short Bus

CP25 #183 - Team Short Bus
Capri25 Measurer 2007(ish)-2010
Douse: [dous] v, a: to lower or take in suddenly; b: to stow quickly; c: ease, with vigor
---
Regret is the bastard child of desire and inaction.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2006 : 17:09:35

We store the pole on a lower ring at the mast base, There is a large C-Ring attached to the Car for the topping lift to connect to, so you don't have to attach it every downwind leg, This car is also used for another block that attaches the downhaul, the block system that is mid fordeck sucks, so we have moved it back. Close to the windward mark the fordeck takes the topping lift and pole off of the car, The pole is ready to be raised, and the slack is take out of the topping lift. Both the topping lift and the downhaul are right together on the starboard side of the boat, I use a solid green for the topping lift and a solis red for the downhaul. I have both of them runnig back to the cockpit, the downhaul is run thru some plastic fairleads installed on the slope of the starboard deck, and the topinglift comes out of the base of the mast to the deck organizer then back to a cam cleat. I run my spinnaker halyard thru the port side of the boat, so that the fordeck can watch the pole and move it forward. The trimmer takes the guy and brings the foot of the spinnaker to the pole right at the headstay, we cleat the guy and sheet. The grinder in the cockpit is incharge of getting the chute out of the bag, thats in the companionway, so he knows if there is a snag with the chute, there have been so many times when the fordeck has been at the mast raising the spinnaker, not looking at the spinnaker coming out of the bag, and ripping it on the shroud, or getting it caught on some thing. This way the fordeck is back, but in charge of the spinnaker pole, the grinder is in charge of raising the chute, and the trimmer is in charge of getting the guy around, then sheeting the spinnaker to fill.

We have used this in practice about 12 times, it seems to be working for us right now. Once the crew gets better, I might end up moving the spinnaker halyard, but for right now its working very good. I like to also have everyone alternate around the boat. If everyone knows all of the jobs on the boat, then when some thing does go wrong, someone is there to help out and knows what to do. We also go out and do very short sets. We will drop a marker in the water and sail up towards it, Pole set, round mark, set chute, drop genoa, Gybe, Gybe, then set genoa, drop chute, and do it all agian.

Twings - I used a ALLEN HOLT snap shackle for the ends of the twings, I also have a 1" car with a block set up on the outside track, right at the widest part of the boat, a little behind the mast. I then installed a cam cleat w/ fairlead to the outside deck right behind the last stantion. So the lines are really thin spectra 1/4" and run like this.

Thru the Cam cleat, up the side of the boat to the 1" Car & block and at the end of the line the Holt Snap shackle, this just clips right on the spinnaker sheet. The lines are about 20'-0" long. I have had the boat in 25 knots and not used the twings, The shifts are really strange here in light air, but in heavy air the shifts are allot longer. Weight is the most important part of going downhill in the capri, Fordeck should be at the mast on the windward side, Grinder should move into the cabin, Trimmer should be right behind the Grinder at the step, and the Helmsman should be on the windward side. If you remember to keep the boat under the kite, the boat will stay pretty flat.

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2006 : 18:29:41

Badandy supplied this to the Yahoo Group files at my request:

Should give you a few ideas.

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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2006 : 10:20:33

Thanks guys, good info. I've got a copy of that graphic and that's basically whay my setup is, with the downhaul running back to the cockpit and the topping lift cleated to the S side of the mast. Will prob leave the topping lift alone for now, and try to come up with a 2nd car or a ring to mount the pole to at the base of the mast for upwind.

The Harken website suggest using the 351 29mm Carbo TI-Lite block for the twing, but that's not an opening block. Any issues with leaving the block on the line when unloaded? (Other than the obvious that it has to be rigged beforehand)

btw, I've alrady got the downhaul turning block moved to the base of the mast.

Jim

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Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2006 : 13:45:47

Jim buy this for the end of the twing line, Its the best on the market.
http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e574.asp

I used these for the line to go thru at the 1" T-Track
http://www.ronstan.com/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RC72533

and the cam cleat I used is just like this one
http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e34.asp

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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2006 : 16:01:07

Chris - good info thanks! I have a couple of spare cars like the Ronstans, so I just need a block and spring. Like the Holt Allens, will prob pick up a couple of those.

Where did you mount the cam cleat and do you use a fairlead over the top or open?

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Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2006 : 16:22:47

I mounted the Cam Cleat right behind the last stantion, Its where the life line attaches to the last stantion then to the rear pulpit. I have it on an angle towards the cockpit. I used the fairlead that totally incloses the line. I know that the twings under pressure in a gust can rip the hardware right out of the deck, so I thru bolted them, and had a stainless backing plate made. I think that I used #8 bolts.

I don't think that you even need a spring on the twings just a good high load block, and yes the HOLT snap blocks are the best.

Good Luck tonight, take your time on the sets, and keep the boat under the chute, I have read that the boat gets really fast at 5 to 10 deg by the lee, you should be able to pass everyone sailing this close to dead down.

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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2006 : 09:49:38

Checking out the boat last night, doesn't appear to have ever been set up for twings, so I'll need the cam cleats as well.

Any idea if the mast track is 1" or 1.25"? Looking to put a 2nd car on the track for the pole.

Jim

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