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Mast Raising A-Frame

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pegasus
1st Mate

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USA
65 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/15/2006 : 08:50:11

Hi, Folks:

I lowered my mast without the use of an A-Frame and learned that I ought to assemble one for future use. The tech tips section of the website has a description of one, but leaves a few questions remaining.

Is the conduit used 1" conduit? The description mentions inserting wood in the ends, is this just used to pound the conduit flat for drilling bolt holes, or does the wood remain?

Anyone have other tips on mast raising/lowering?

BTW, I have two teenage sons, can I skip the A-Frame and use their muscle to save a few bucks? The owners manual says the mast can easily be raised with someone holding a line at the front of the boat.

thanks for the benefit of your wisdom and experience!

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1766 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2006 : 09:26:36

Hi Chuck,

Here is a link to a thread in our archives that should answer most of your questions: [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=4511&SearchTerms=A-frame"]Mast-raising A-frame[/url]

Be sure to check out the links in that thread for even more info.

The biggest foot-stomper for building an A-frame is, get RIGID conduit ... it is made of steel, not aluminum ... and 1" seems to work fine.

'Don't know about inserting wood in the ends ... I don't recall doing anything like that. I simply clamped the end of the conduit in a vice to get the flattening started, then I pounded it flat with a 3-pound sledge hammer.

Yes, you can use your sons for muscle power ... many do it that way.

If you have a tall rig, stepping the mast is harder to do, whether you use the A-frame or muscle. The tall rig mast weighs more, and, since it is 2 feet taller, the center of balance is different ... it will also protrude farther aft over the transom.

Please take a look at the link, and let us know what other questions you have ... good luck!

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2006 : 10:14:52

The pictures Buzz provided helped me a lot when I built my A-Frame. I built mine exactly the way he pictures it.
The Admiral and I have raised and lowered our standard rig mast using the A-Frame and have also raised and lowered without the A-Frame. Both ways, it is fairly easy when you understand your rigging. The advantage of the A-frame is that it allows you to stop mid-procedure to adjust rigging.
You should be able to build one for under $20.
Having raised and lowered enough to be confident in the procedure, I think the most important tool to have is the mast crutch.
I would definitely want to have an A-frame for a tall rig.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2006 : 12:13:30

Peg,

I also built mine based on Buzz's pictures and descriptions. The hardest part for me what learning that a nipple was something other than...well, you know. I don't use any wood blocks in my set up. I secure the "nipples" the the forward lower chainplates, then the a-frame pivots from the nipples. Very simple process really. Prep time is what takes me so long. The actual cranking the mast up or back down only takes a few moments. It is important to guard against side to side sway though.

Good luck.

Edited by - on

pegasus
1st Mate

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USA
65 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2006 : 13:35:16

Thanks, Folks - great tips.

I bought the parts and pieces from a local hardware store during my lunch break. About $22.00.

Now, another question... I read use 'rigid' conduit which the hardware store carried - it was the heavy pipe with threaded ends, approximately 1/8th inch thick metal and about $26.00 apiece. I'm assuming that that's not what I needed. I bought the standard metal conduit which is more like 1/16th inch thick, and something I could easily pound flat with a sledge. Lastly, I bought a 1" x 3" piece of black pipe touse at the lower forward attachment points. I'm hoping a 1" pipe will slip over the tab that the clevis pin slips through.

Edited by - on

pegasus
1st Mate

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USA
65 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2006 : 13:37:09

and you work the mast up and down using the cabin top winch, correct?

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
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1766 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2006 : 13:57:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pegasus
 and you work the mast up and down using the cabin top winch, correct?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, but if you don't have a cabin-top winch, you can use the primary winch on the coaming. The advantage of the cabin-top winch is that you can crank with one hand, and use the other to push up against the mast to make it easier going up, or catch and steady it to make it smoother coming down.

'Hope that makes sense ...

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2006 : 17:10:07

The way we do it.

Raising: Mast in the roller cradle attached via the rudder gudgeons.Mast pin inserted. A-frame set-up (standing up like an A) with the forestay attached to the top of the A-frame, and a line also attached to the top of the A-frame, running via a block at the bow back to the cockpit via a rope clutch on the cabin top - I straddle the mast, and pull up while the Admiral pulls in the slack in the line. I can do this with one hand, using the other to keep the shrouds going where they're supposed to be going.
Lowering: Same as above, except I stand on the seats in the cockpit to guide the mast into the cradle and to collect the shrouds.
The Admiral wears leather gloves and is quite confident in the entire process. The line running through the cabin top clutch is our safety catch. She pulls in the slack with the line running round a cleat - ready to cleat off the line or either of us can reach the clutch if needed.
When we first got the boat, we needlessly fretted about it, and found that the most important thing was to know the rigging.
The PO was no help because he simply told us he 'just pushed it up'.
Our biggest concern is guarding against over-confidence.
With teenage sons, you may want to be on the winch, issuing commands ready to cleat down the line. Have one son on each side of the mast and it'll go up easily as long as you don't have any rigging caught up.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
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USA
1766 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2006 : 17:58:31

Chuck (Pegasus),

It sounds like Mike (Stampeder) has it down to a science. With a little practice, you will learn a procedure that works for you. I would highly recommend you take some notes so that you can refer to them later ... making a checklist would be even better.

After some trial and error, I decided it was easier to raise/lower the mast using the jib halyard instead of the forestay. It just seemed more stable to leave the mast attached to the A-frame with the jib halyard while attaching the forestay to the tang, but either method will work.

As Mike pointed out, one of the most important things to stepping your mast (whether you use an A-frame or not) is to know the rigging. Make sure you've got the rigging properly attached and oriented so that it doesn't twist or "foul" on anything on the way up. If you rehearse the procedure several times in your head before you actually start cranking the mast up, it'll be smooth as silk.

One other thing worth mentioning ... be sure to check your mast tabernacle to see if it is firmly attached to the top of the deck. On the older C-25s the tabernacle is held to the deck with large screws; on newer models the tabernacle is through-bolted. If you have screws, check for any dry rot around them ... if the screws aren't holding well, the mast will rip the tabernacle up from the deck ... it happened to me

(it was an easy fix with "Git-Rot")

OK ... 'hope that helps ... let us know if you have any more questions.

Edited by - on

pegasus
1st Mate

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USA
65 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2006 : 21:44:25

Hi folks:

I got the parts and assembled the rig in about an hour. I'm almost excited about getting back to the boat and giving it a go. I struggled through high-school physics, so the forces in play on the rig have me scratching my head - is there much downward force on the two conduit poles?

I'll let you know how it goes - thanks again for all your help!

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2006 : 23:35:45

I don't think there's much downward force as long as you keep your mast going straight. As noted, keep it going straight, make sure rigging is unencumbered.

One other thing: I use 3" X 1/4" hex bolts, (with the threads going about 1/2" up the bolt) with wing nuts, in all the connector points.

With two teenage sons. I'm sure you'll find it a breeze.
Good luck!

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 06:55:16

Pegasus,
I just read through this thread and offer the following concern if not already too late. There is a major difference in strength between thin-walled and rigid conduit. I have just built my A-frame using rigid conduit as noted in the earlier threads. I would be very concerned about use of the thin-walled conduit and suggest you again query those more experienced members of this forum. I recall one posting of a tall-rig owner who even chose to use square stock when the rigid conduit collapsed on raising/lowering the mast.

I neither have the tools or much experience working with metal so I understand the hesitancy to work with the rigid conduit. I took mine to a local metal shop to have them cut off the threaded ends, flatten and bend the ends to the approximate angle needed. Cost $15. Had I the tools it probably would have been easy to do, but....

I made one modification to Buzz's original drawing FWIW. Rather than sandwich carabiners between the apex of the frame, I used a piece of aluminum stock (3/8" x 3" x 5") purchased from the metal shop ($5) drilled the needed holes (easy to do) and attached two SS shackles I had on hand. The later are used rather than the carabineers to attach lines fore and aft to control the A-frame.

Good luck.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 12:06:09

If you are relying on mechanical apparatus to do the work, you will want to make sure the material you employ can bear the loads.
I've used my A-frame in a manner where it bears 100% of the load - keeping in mind some of the older posts- I watched for flexing of the conduit and potential weak spots, I didn't see any.
As I gained experience, my method transformed into one that relies mostly on my own muscle power to raise the mast - I'm bearing at least 75% of the weight of the mast, and often 100%.
My A-Frame is more of a safety mechanism.
I've also raised and lowered without the A-Frame, and had no trouble. Just the line running from the bow back to the cockpit via the cabin top clutch as a safety line.

Edited by - on

pegasus
1st Mate

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USA
65 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 13:10:14

The plot thickens...I just spoke with Catalina Direct and was advised that the height and diameter of the Tall-Rig, and thus the weight, is greater than the standard rig. I just assumed it was only taller by a few feet, and a little bit heavier. I was advised to be very cautious about using the thin-walled conduit - nuts, that stuffs' cheap by comparison...

Any advice from the tall-Rig sailers?

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 23:14:51

The thin wall stuff is called 'EMT' for 'Electrical Metal Tubing. It is pretty light, I'm really afraid it will buckle under load which could result in serious personal injury or damage to the boat.

There's a common thread in a lot of the 'experienced' replies about having your rigging in order so it doesn't get twisted or otherwise hang up.

Indeed, most of the hassles I've experienced with mast raising are with the stays getting tangled on something, wrapped around my neck, or having the mast fittings end up cocked as the rig comes up.

That's why I raise the mast with the minimal amount of rigging attached to the deck. All you really need connected when you start the mast up are the two aft lowers and the jib halyard to the lifting tackle.

With the mast is vertical, snug off the mast raising line and connect the forward lowers (or the forestay if you used the jib halyard to raise).

With those in place you're stabilized and can 'relax'. At your leisure, connect the rest of the rig. With everything secured, you can then tighten the turnbuckles to the marks you made when you took it down last year.

(You did mark the rig didn't you?) ;>)

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 23:38:55

I believe I made my A frame from regular galvanized pipe.

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Champipple
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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 23:43:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 

(You did mark the rig didn't you?) ;>)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
NOPE - here's why
After entire winter without load - last years marks wouldn't mean anything anyway....Most will want to be tuning the rig 4 times a season if not racing but staying in the water. Once at the dock to get it straight, once under sail to make sure the tip isn't falling off upwind. and again after 2 or 3 weeks as the boat begins to stretch..

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ClamBeach
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Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 09:07:30

> "After entire winter without load - last years marks wouldn't mean anything anyway...."

I haven't observed significant changes in the rigging between launches... possibly because my boat is usually in the water except for maintenance haulouts.

For me, marking the previous setup saves time and hassle getting the mast rigged at least to a 'baseline' state.

I'll twang the stays for even tension and visually check the rig tune periodically during the year but typically don't see a lot of changes. The only time I've had to do several significant re-tuning sessions is when I put new wire on... once it was stretched, it stayed pretty constant.

YMMV.

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Champipple
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Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 09:24:29

Bruce – I’d be willing to bet you would see some changes requiring adjustment if you had shrouds and stays off the boat, without load for 6 -7 months. Once the boat is in the water with the mast stepped for a few weeks, there is an additional tweak or two required as the hull stretches.

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PamC
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171 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 10:33:06

A timely topic as Dave & I will be launching My Prozac on Saturday. The PO made an A-frame that came with the boat that we use when raising & lowering. However we have three carabiners on the apex of the A-frame - one is used for the up (forestay or jib halyard) and down (four-purchase mainsheet) lines and the forward lower shrouds are attached to the other two. Does anyone else attach their shrouds to the A-frame? I wondering if we receive any benefit from that attachment. Other than it keeps them up out of the way of catching on stuff.

Using the mainsheet allows me to be on the fordeck while Dave is in the cockpit guiding the mast up. The camcleats on the mainsheet give us a way to secure the line if we have to stop & untangle something. Since I'm on the foredeck I'm in place to secure the forestay.

A cautionary tale - On our first mast raising for our first launch (we had several practice drills on the hard at home & were sure we had it down to an artform)I was manning the lifting line in the cockpit. We don't have cabin top winches so we used the primaries. Being the careful one (read: scaredy cat) I took the precaution of running the lifting line through a jam cleat on the cabin top before running it to the winch. Actually a good idea except the line needs to routed around a cleat behind the winch to bring it to the winch at a workable angle. And since I was tranfixed watching the mast go up I didn't notice the line fouling around the winch. That was a nasty stuck with the mast half-way up and the lifting line jammed. It actually required that we dissassemble the winch

So I was glad I had that line in the jam cleat.

We've also used the trailer winch to raise and lower the mast. It's pretty slick, but it means there's only one of us on the deck. I prefer having both sets of hands on deck.

Edited by - on

thaind
Navigator

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Canada
145 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 12:55:08

I made an A frame out of conduit to watch it twist into pasta. It was replaced with 1" steel square tube which is easier to work with and much stronger/stiffer/less twisty. I have an eye bolt at top, and one at each bottom leg for connections.

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pegasus
1st Mate

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USA
65 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 13:25:00

Thanks, that's what I needed to hear. I was worried that the 1" conduit was too weak/thin. I'll start shopping for the 1" square stock.

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cjb
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USA
27 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 18:25:10

we use our mainsheet tackle with a longer line and fasten it to the bow cleat. It gives you a 3 to 1 purchase making it much easier to lift the mast. 1 pwerson stands on the bow working the tackle the other stabalizes the mast and makes shure the riging doesn't tangle. goes up easy
83 tall rig swing keel

Edited by - on

pegasus
1st Mate

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USA
65 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 21:35:28

How do you connect the square stock to the forward lower attachment points with eye bolts?

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thaind
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Canada
145 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2006 : 20:25:52

I'll send pics/drawings of connections if weather lets me take them Friday. Top I remember is simply overlapped with 3/8 hole and eye-bolt with nut on each side. I connect both Halyard and front stay to this for raising and use a double block system with becket much like a boom vang to raise or lower mast.

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ngrinich
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Response Posted - 05/19/2006 : 00:19:31

Got the boat in the water, but the mast is not up yet. Thinking of just using some helpful folks to muscle up the mast, but I think an A frame would reduce a lot of stress (mental and physical). I'd also like to see how you fasten the square leg of the A frame to the shroud plate. Any recommendations on the length of the square tubing for a standard rig set-up?

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