Association Forum - Fairing swing keel an locking it in place

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Fairing swing keel an locking it in place

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

vinny27
Deckhand

Member Avatar

3 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/13/2006 : 02:23:28

My '77 C-25 has a rust problem with some nasty pits in the swing keel. I plan on sandblasting it, rustproffing it, and doing the epoxy fairing process, and tyhe painting it but I'm puzzled about how to handle the heavy thing at the boat yard. I guess I'll remove it from the boat so I can replace the pivot bolt, bushings, cable, etc. Is that a good idea?
The boat stays in salt water year around and I plan to trailer it to Baja and Puget Sound soon, so I want the keel in great shape. Any ideas on how to handle it during the fairing process?
Also, I have heard that owners of C-22 swing keels have a way of fixing the keel in place, so it doesn't swing back and forth in ocean swells. Is there any way to fix the keel on the C-25 securely in the down position?
Any help much appreciated.
Andy

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2006 : 11:12:09

You'll need to remove the keel from the boat to do a proper job.
I just PM'ed you some details...

Edited by - on

StSimon
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2006 : 14:39:27

Clam,

I am in the midst of a complete bottom job. How about sending me the details as well?

Thanks,

Edited by - on

StSimon
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2006 : 14:40:42

Does anyone know what material an 84 keel is made of?

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2006 : 15:31:28

Hey Andy, it looks like mine is made of cast iron. It is pitted as well. I am doing the bottom next year which will include grinned the swing down to smooth (big job) or converting to a wing. Cheers.

Edited by - on

Steve Siefken
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
81 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2006 : 18:34:43

I have an 84, she has a cast iron keel.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2006 : 18:44:30

your 77 should be cast iron.....

Edited by - Champipple on 05/14/2006 18:44:54

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2006 : 09:38:17

A good deal of the PM reply was specific to the boatyard facilities (or rather lack therof) on Humboldt Bay. Here's a reprise.

If you have a swinger, the keel needs to be completely removed from the boat for proper sandblasting/epoxy encapsulation. The big challenge you will face is handling a one ton piece of cast iron (approx).

I've done this in the past using the boat trailer itself as a keel transporter. If you have a full-service boatyard and/or you aren't comfortable handling heavy iron consider hiring it out.

1) Using blocking, padding and some jacks, raise the aft end of the boat enough to disconnect the keel cable. (note: if you have an old-style cable attachment fitting you will want to upgrade to the new fitting during this re-fit)

2) Lower the aft end of the boat back onto the trailer.

3) Clean and loosen each keel hinge bolt. Re-tighten each in turn. These bolts can be stubborn and you don't want to be fighting them at the boatyard.

4 Using C-Clamps, frame some (substantial) cribbing around the keel to hold it upright. (You really don't want this puppy to fall over). Mark or use wooden blocking to establish the location of the keel on the support board so you can get it back in the same place when you are ready to put it back on the boat.

At the boatyard... or wherever you're gonna lift the boat.

5) Use a jack and blocking to hold the weight of the front of the keel. Remove the front keel hinge bolts. Lower the keel fully onto the trailer.

6) Lift the boat off the trailer. The keel stays behind and can be transported to wherever it's going to be sandblasted and/or worked on.

You only want to do this job once so do (or have it done) right... Hang the keel, sandblast thoroughly, acetone wash. Prep and prime with a marine below-the-water iron 'fixitave'. (See WM catalog).

If you use epoxy... thin the first coats with acetone so it penetrates all the pores in the cast iron. Be sure to mix epoxy components exactly to specifications. Make sure you wipe all the 'amine blush' off the epoxy between coats.

Fit and fair to your satisfaction. During this process, be sure to carefully measure the keel trunk opening where the keel head swings up and the thickness of the keel head to make sure you have a nice hand-in-glove fit... you want no more, no less.

Would be a nasty surprise to be trying to fit the keel and find out it doesn't.

Re-assembly is a reversal of the process. Position and block the keel back on the trailer in it's original position (remember you marked it).

Back the trailer under the boat and (carefully) lower the boat into position. It will probably take some wiggling... and the technique of using long pieces of all-thread to do the final hinge 'lift' can be very useful.

As noted above... if you're not comfortable with your abilities, hire it out. A ton of iron sitting on your hand or foot has gotta hurt.

Of course, during this refit, examine the keel pin, hinges, and cable fitting and renew as needed.

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

Members Avatar

Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 08:12:07

Clam-
Excellent.Thank you.
What was used to hang the keel?

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 09:18:01

"What was used to hang the keel?"

You mean what point on the keel to use for the lift?

The keel pivot hole... 7/8 eye bolt & eye nut. Could also put an eyebolt in the tapped hole where the keel cable attachment goes if you want to hang it horizontally.

I recommend using a 'chain fall' style hoist... IMHO the keel is too heavy to try and handle with the commonly available cable 'come-a-longs'. (dangerous)

Example:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_7683_7683

I have a ranch with a big barn, a full-size backhoe and heavy rigging. If I had a 10 ton hydro-crane sitting around, I'd really have it made. :>)

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 11:58:37

Vinny, I don't think anyone addressed the matter of locking the keel: this has come up several times in the past, and can be found in the archives. Essentially, there's pretty universal agreement that the C22 keel gets locked down because it's relatively light; the C25 keel, at 1500 lbs., really doesn't bounce very much. I've been in 5 foot waves and the keel doesn't move. If the waves are big enough to bounce the keel, a C25 has no business being out there. Seas large enough to bounce a swing keel would either sever a locking pin or cause damage to the fiberglass around the pin.

So, go sail and don't worry about the keel bouncing!

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 05/16/2006 19:38:29

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 18:58:02

I'll second the no need to lock the keel down. My previous boat had a lock bolt that went through the keel trunk and keel, and at some point in time, a PO had it locked down and then ran aground. This grounding caused the lock bolt to move about 4 inches forward in the keel trunk.

Edited by - on

vinny27
Deckhand

Members Avatar

3 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 15:23:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Brooke Willson
 Vinny, I don't think anyone addressed the matter of locking the keel: this has come up several times in the past, and can be found in the archives. Essentially, there's pretty universal agreement that the C22 keel gets locked down because it's relatively light; the C25 keel, at 1500 lbs., really doesn't bounce very much. I've been in 5 foot waves and the keel doesn't move. If the waves are big enough to bounce the keel, a C25 has no business being out there. Seas large enough to bounce a swing keel would either sever a locking pin or cause damage to the fiberglass around the pin.

So, go sail and don't worry about the keel bouncing!

Brooke
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

vinny27
Deckhand

Members Avatar

3 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 15:37:08

Thank you all for the replys. Bruce, yours was especially helpful. It seems sandblasting is an option at the fields landing yard, but the fork lift on order has not arrived yet so one is available from the carbon plant next door (at about $60/hr). The owner says the fork lift forks have about a 4' reach so I'm guessing the trailer must be out of the way for the fork lift to reachhe keel? Another plan would be to try and handle the keel while the boat is in the slings, maybe using the eye through the cable bolt hole approach. What do you think?
Also, would it be better to hang the keel horozontally?
They have a sandblasting site there and all I need to do is make sure it's avaiable at the time of the pull out.
RE: Fixing the keel in place; I was asking about this because I'm considering the possibility of being caught out in some really lousy conditions--like in Baja, maybe--and was wondering what my 25'SK/SR could take. Also wondering, what is the best way to approach seas if they get big enough to move the keel. Should I be sailing upwind or down? At a 45 degree angle upwind to the swells or what?

Thanks again to everyone who posted replys,
Andy (AKA VInny 277)

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 21:39:47

>"I'm guessing the trailer must be out of the way for the fork lift to reach the keel?"

IMHO: 4'long forks aren't going to cut it for getting the keel out from under the boat safely unless you lift the boat up in the air far enough to get the mast on the forklift under the hull. (that might get spooky)

I'd drop the keel on the trailer, then lift the boat off the trailer with the slings and put it on jackstands if you're going to prep and paint the bottom at the yard.

The keel stays blocked upright sitting on the trailer and is lifted off at that point. The trailer is pretty tough compared to the boat.

Note: The iron keel is very slippery when in a 'metal on metal' configuration put wooden blocks between it and the forks if you carry it around. That's another reason I advocate lifting it with chains or cables rather than trying to get forks under it. You don't want to drop this puppy.

In general, forklifts & other heavy equipment operating around my boat make me nervous. In a contest of Fiberglass vs. Steel, Steel wins every time.

>"Also, would it be better to hang the keel horizontally?"

Your call. Depends a lot on what you have to hang it from... and where the sandblaster will be working... do what works for you and what you have rigging for.

"..approach seas if they get big enough to move the keel."

Yowser. Hope to never be there. Most likely scenario for that would be short, sharp seas close inshore... or breaking seas across a bar, so your options as to course might be limited. Take 'em at an angle I'd reckon.

Here's recommended reading. Coles, 'Heavy Weather Sailing'

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0070117322/102-5405820-3976948?v=glance&n=283155

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.