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Big problem for a rookie sailor

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2006 : 19:28:49

Thanks for the info Tommy!

Having lived north of Chicago for a year or so, I know how magnificent the harbors can be. I took the family on a vacation to Chicago a couple of years ago and I had a hard time pulling myself away from the waters edge around Monroe Harbor, but the family insisted on seeing someone named Sue!

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2006 : 20:18:13

as a previous poster asked, where do you leave your dingy? In the middle of the star dock?

Thanx for the pics.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2006 : 22:12:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tomara
 Stardocks look like an Starfish with 8 legs. Between each leg 1 boat is able to dock..and therefore 8 boats total can dock at 1 stardock. 8 noses (bows) all pointing toward the center of the stardock.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
So you pull in, tie up, get off, and then swim to shore?

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Jmurfy
Navigator

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USA
176 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2006 : 10:10:30

The stardock actually has 15 boats moored there. ( I think) Since this is my 1st time at this harbor I believe one space is used for pulling up with your dinghy. The dindghy launch area is about 150' feet away from my space at the stardock In Tomara's picture it can just barely be seen in the foreground diagonally across from the (dog)beach in the vicinty of that small building. I'm at the closest stardock to that building. Thanks again for all the insightful advice. Also, the dinghys due stay in the center area.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2006 : 12:38:33

So they have put 8 boats in the space needed for a full 360 degree swinging mooring, BRILLIANT.

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Jmurfy
Navigator

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USA
176 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2006 : 22:14:12

Actually 16. I confirmed that today.

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rw5015
Deckhand

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USA
1 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2006 : 11:53:37

I’m always amused when I see people come bounding into a slip, jumping off with bow lines, yelling etc… They key is to be completely aware of all of the forces that will be affecting your boat as you approach your dock. With the Catalina 25, one that is usually grossly under estimated is the force away from the dock that is exerted when you leap off the bow. The boat swings away from the dock, and you only make about half the distance with the jump that you anticipated. The other force that is usually overestimated is the engine. Outboards are less predictable then we would like, and if you are where you can reach it, you are usually not in a position to do anything else, tend to lines etc… You should be able to dock your boat without ever having to use heavy reverse, or big leaps. The forces that are most important to you are the momentum of the boat, the wind, and any current. You must also be aware of how these forces may change; they could be different just outside your marina then they are tucked in at your slip. Your frame of mind is important as well, you need to be focused on positioning your boat just shy of your dock in a completely controlled manner, then using all of the forces present to ease the boat into the dock. If you focus your whole approach on getting the bow close to the cleat on the dock, you will be past the point of no return by the time you realize you have a problem. Make sure that you have a point where you can still abort the docking if you are not comfortably under control. If you aren’t, do it over again.

Imagine the escalator at the mall. Imagined walking up the down escalator and your goal is gracefully pick up a glass of wine sitting on a table right at the top of the escalator. You have to walk right along to overcome the speed of the escalator, but to run doesn’t work either or you will trip at the top and spill the glass. You would need to pause just shy of the top and figure out exactly what your pace needs to be in order to ever so gently get close enough and pick up the glass.

Extreme conditions make these forces much easier to be aware of. Imagine a motor boat at the top of a waterfall where the current is racing. You can hold the boat still by aiming directly into the current and apply the right amount of throttle. Then you can move along to the waterfall by pointing the bow slightly to the left or the right, and then backwards and forwards with the throttle. Introduce wind, no different, it is just one more force to overcome with the direction that you aim the boat and the amount of throttle that you apply. If you put a row of buoys across the river, within a few minutes of practice you could easily slalom the boat sideways through them. It is just a matter of understanding the forces that are being applied to the boat and using all of them.

One other thing that I see all the time is hard shifts between forward and reverse during docking. That to me is the equivalent of racing from a stoplight and jamming on the brakes at the next one. Since outboards aren’t the smoothest, if you know you will need a little reverse, have the engine idling in reverse as you approach so all you have to do is give it a quick rev. Once your first line is on, hit the kill button. If you feel as though you need both forward and reverse, you are trying to come in too fast and/or didn’t plan properly.
Like someone else had suggested, the spring line will be your key brake as you come in. Have all of your lines set before you come into the marina. I leave mine on the dock actually so all I have to do is drop the loops over the cleats on the boat as I come in. As I back out I set my stern line where I can easily grab it when I return. When I come in, once that spring line I would step off, and drop the bow lines over.
The trick is to see how slowly you can approach the dock. That will give you ample time to observe and react to the forces as they change and also, if you do need to correct with your outboard, the corrections will be slight. Good Luck!!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2006 : 12:35:19

Most questions on this forum come down to people explaining what has worked for them; in their situation. The trick as a student of this discourse is to recognize those replies that speak to your own situation. Everyone gets comfortable docking their own boat eventually. Most people at my club have shifted into neutral 25-50 yards before their slip and come to a stop in their slip with no "event" of any kind. I am a big believer in sailing in and out of a slip several times a season to keep your skill up at dealing with motor failure. One real rookie thing that people need to be aware of is that the broadest beam of your boat is the first part of your boat to arrive close to the dock. (provided you have fingers) I put a lot of blame on skippers who allow new sailors or guests to be at the bow when coming in, it is the last part of the boat to come close to the dock. If I am concerned about an approach I have someone standing at the chain plates waiting to casually step onto the finger as we come in. If I am a guest on another boat I am standing there as a matter of course. (yes on the outside of the lifeline) We have double fingers, one on each side of our slip, I cannot imagine a situation where someone would actually "jump" from the boat to the dock, It is always just a gentle step away.

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1766 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2006 : 15:25:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rw5015
 I’m always amused when I see people come bounding into a slip, jumping off with bow lines, yelling etc... ...The trick is to see how slowly you can approach the dock. That will give you ample time to observe and react to the forces as they change and also, if you do need to correct with your outboard, the corrections will be slight. Good Luck!! -RW<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hi Bob,

That was a nice post you made, and very well thought out ... thanks for dropping by.

BTW, I checked your profile, and it sounds like you might be boatless at the moment. Don't let that stop you from frequenting this Forum ... there are plenty of sailors who post here even though they don't own a C-25/250 or a Capri 25, and others don't own a boat at all.

Welcome to the group!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5890 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2006 : 16:34:56

A telescoping boat hook is always a good thing to have in hand. If you come up short, you can hook a piling or reach for a dockline and pull yourself to it.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2006 : 19:05:51

"The other force that is usually overestimated is the engine. Outboards are less predictable then we would like, and if you are where you can reach it, you are usually not in a position to do anything else, tend to lines etc… You should be able to dock your boat without ever having to use heavy reverse,..."

"Most people at my club have shifted into neutral 25-50 yards before their slip and come to a stop in their slip with no "event" of any kind..."

I'm a firm believer in using the engine sparingly around the docks and, like Frank mentioned, I too shift into neutral about 50 yards away to slowly bleed off speed, and gently pull into my slip. Depending on conditions, I may have to give the motor a little reverse or forward to adjust my speed, but I do so before making my turn into the slip so as to take the outboard out of the docking equation. Additionally, I never use the outboard as a brake. If I do, its because I did something wrong in my approach.

Of the docking problems I've observed (banging into docks and other boats), most can be attributed to coming in too hot while trying to power park one's boat.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2006 : 19:34:01

I am the same way. I may give it 1 or 2 really quick revs in reverse, but most of the time I cut to neutral well before I get to my dock.

Never approach the dock faster than you will hit it. You will screw up, just learn from it...visualize docking based on the conditions before even getting into the marina... or before turning into the slip.

dw

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2006 : 21:39:03

Not disputing anything said above, but man I wish I COULD coast into my dock. 2 knot current makes things far more interesting, especially with a 15 knot wind coming from a different direction.

As I said before, sailing is (relatively) easy, docking is hard...

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Jmurfy
Navigator

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USA
176 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2006 : 22:42:50

RW, you hit it right on the head in my case. There was an opposite reaction when I jumped for the dock when the wind pushed me away. I was surprised how easily I could push a 5000 lb boat one way and myself another at the same time and then of course landing in very cold water and losing control of my boat. You would think the fin keel would resist the reaction. Oh well, I learned the hard way. I do have a telescoping hook and will keep it handy. The tip about keeping the stern and spring line handy on the dock has been working since I began doing it. Great suggestion. Now i just need a goodpair of leather gloves so I can avoid the blisters I developed from grabbing the line and grinding to a halt.
Last year I had a mooring (can) that was much easier since I would always be approaching into the wind and would glide to just about a halt while at the same time using my hook to grab the chicago style harness that was in the water.
What happens now is that even if I successfully approach my finger of the stardock the wind may push me away quicker then I can secure the boat.
The one thing I have learned to love about sailing (in my 2nd season of doing it at the ripe old age of 45)is that I literally learn something new every time I go out. Its exilerating when it occurs to me why a function of the boat was designed the way it is or when I figure out a better way to do something, etc...... It was equally a learning experience when I learned first hand how the mind reacts in a crisis. I am much more cautious and thorough on my preperation now. Once again, thanks, I have read all the suggestions and tried to absorb the knowledge that is here at this site.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2006 : 06:41:33

Don't grab the line and pull, have a bowline or spliced eye in it and throw it on your winch- not the cleat. No need to dislocate a shoulder or tear up your hands.

Obviously have the splice or knot tied in it before leaving the dock (only have to do it once) so that the correct length remains.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2006 : 09:55:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jmurfy
 Now i just need a goodpair of leather gloves so I can avoid the blisters I developed from grabbing the line and grinding to a halt.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I always wear sailing gloves, there is a pair sitting in my passenger seat right now, I have committee boat duty tonight and will wear them the entire time. I wear them often even when not out on the water, it is amazing how often I need them around the club. Real sailing gloves are worth the money, the leather does not get hard.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2006 : 18:16:39

"Now i just need a goodpair of leather gloves so I can avoid the blisters I developed from grabbing the line and grinding to a halt." 

Like Duane said, no need to grab a line to stop, just throw the loop over a winch and you're done.

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