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 Racing handicap: swing keel versus fixed		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts
Initially Posted - 04/30/2006 :  19:27:05  Show Profile
What is the national experience for handicapping swing keels versus fixed? Based on a very small sample of boats in the Chesapeake Bay, swingers seem to get be 3 seconds slower, i.e. rate 240 versus 237. How does that stack up where you live?

Thanks
Bruce Baker
Falls Church, VA
"Yee Ha" 3573
'83SR/SK
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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts
Response Posted - 04/30/2006 :  19:55:59  Show Profile  Visit Champipple's Homepage
That really depends on the boat Bruce. The C-25's here are all equal, regardless of keel.

In looking at my national PHRF book, they are generally rated the same.

dw
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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts
Response Posted - 04/30/2006 :  21:54:54  Show Profile
Bruce - on Canyon Lake we rate all TM's at 222 and all SR's at 225 - no matter what the keel.
The reason the different keels should rate the same, is that the swing is faster to weather (tacks quicker and points higher) but the fixed is faster off the wind (less drag). In other words, "what the swing gains on the swings it loses on the roundabouts" !
Derek
Chairman, PHRF of the Alamo
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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts
Response Posted - 04/30/2006 :  22:18:50  Show Profile
In places like my venue, the Columbia River, the fixed SHOULD be faster, perhaps, in that the windward legs are shorter because of current assist, and the downwind legs seem quite long because of the current.....it's almost 2 knots now in the spring. A fixed has an advantage in these scenarios, but we are rated exactly the same.

In the light air of the 2004 Nationals sailed out here, the spinnaker boats had too big of an advantage as it turned out because the wind was so light. It gave the folks with the big chutes an advantage that was beyond what we anticipated. If you are only doing 3 knots into a 2 knot current, you aren't making much. A 4 knot boat is going TWICE as fast as the guy only making 3 knots. It may not be "fair", but that is life under less than perfect conditions....

Gary B.
s/v Encore! #685 SK/SR
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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts
Response Posted - 04/30/2006 :  22:19:21  Show Profile  Visit Champipple's Homepage
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Derek Crawford</i>
<br />Bruce - on Canyon Lake we rate all TM's at 222 and all SR's at 225 - no matter what the keel.
The reason the different keels should rate the same, is that the swing is faster to weather (tacks quicker and points higher) but the fixed is faster off the wind (less drag). In other words, "what the swing gains on the swings it loses on the roundabouts" !
Derek
Chairman, PHRF of the Alamo
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Just as an interesting tidbit, what Derrick describes above is another reason why different PHRF groups have different numbers. Some areas run races conducive to one or another. i.e. longer windwards due to current, shorter downwinds, non-convential course styles. etc
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.