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cockpit sole

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glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/14/2006 : 15:29:20

Is there any communication, such as a weep hole, between the cockpit sole core and the interior?

With T-26 days until moorings/slips open, I pulled back the winter tarps enough to start on this springs projects. Interior storage areas and bilge were bone dry and there was no evidence of any water marks except on the shelf at the aft end of the Q'berth. Here there was probably a good cup of dark tea colored water. Probably 1/4th cup or less in the port lazerette as well. Actually I noticed a small amount of tea colored water in this location within a day of pulling the boat from the water last fall. Unlike in the water, the boat sits on its cradle with the nose just high enough to ensure the cockpit drains should any water get under the tarps. I fear the core beneath the sole may be waterlogged and the solute somehow leaking into the interior. This does not appear to be evident when the boat is afloat, perhaps, because it sits a little more level when in the water.

During our first season (2005), we discovered a leak around the port in the Q'berth (a couple of teaspoons during heavy rain). I removed the port and taped a peice of plexiglass over the opening on the thought that the heat of the summer would allow any water that had gotten between the sole and interior liner to evaporate and hopefully escape. We carefully checked for leaks thereafter but never saw any evidence of any. I don't know how long the leak has been there. A cross section of the cockpit sole itself would appear convex upward adjacent where the Q'berth port was located (1/4 -3/8" rise). The sole is not spongy underfoot but does noticeably compress. I am concerned (1) that I will have to replace the core beneath the sole or (2) that winter freezing or repeated flexing underfoot will result in crazing of the sole. The project list is already long, I'm not looking forward to something potentially this big this year. Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks.

Gerry Livingston, Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Edited by - glivs on 04/15/2006 05:49:30

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 20:44:40

No weep hole there. Could be a leak in the cockpit drains, somewhere else back there (water can really travel on you) or maybe just dripping condensation.

You might plug the drains (at the bottom) and flood the cockpit with a garden hose.. crawl back there and see if anything's dripping.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 20:57:38

Gerry, I am currently smack in the middle of re-coring the sole. It is a bear. I am surprised that a boat that a boat as new as yours would have a water logged sole. I knew mine was soaked becasue when it was below freezing in the shop, and I walked on the sole, it cracked like ice breaking.
I cut through the top fiberglass skin and lifted the fiberglass off the core. It was not adheared at all. The plywood core was so wet I cut through it with a razar blade knife and lifted it out also. It was only adheared in one spot about 2" diameter.
The layup from the bottom up is gelcoat, mat, cloth then about 3/16" puty, 1/4" doug fir, 3/16" more putty, cloth, mat, non-skid gelcoat. The putty is polyester and wood fibers. There were huge voids in teh layers of putty. Thet were all filled in before I installed teh new core.
If you go to do the recore, I have some ideas. Mine is comming out OK but if I had to do it again, I would change a few things.

You might be able to lift the upper skin off and then cut the core material out. After it dries out, epoxy the original core back in and then epoxy the original skin back on.
You can see what I got going here.[url="http://home.wmis.net/%7Edhapp/cockpit/cockpit.html"]Core replacement[/url]
Dan

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2006 : 16:21:39

ClamBeach...It doesn't mean they are not leaking, but there is no evidence of corrosion on the scuppers...I don't see, however, how mcuh water could have gotten to them over the winter. Because of the missing port, I covered the cockpit very well.

Dan...great web site documenting what was a major project. Great job. I'll keep your site in mind as I decide how to proceed.

All...Let me replace my original question....are there any ways to measure/infer whether a core is waterlogged?

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2006 : 21:35:04

I doubt your cockpit sole is the problem. you have a lot of stuff attached to the boat over the quaterberth - at least 1 cleat for dcoking, two stanchions, one cleat for the traveler.

Are all of those solidly bedded? Have you popped the access panel off the ceiling of the quarterber and looked around in there?

Yes, you can usa a water/moisture detection meter. They aren't cheap so if you know someone who has one or if you know of a guy who is a boat surveyor, you'll do well to borrow it.

Personally, I'm a bit afraid of what the meter might tell me.

dw

Edited by - on

Cloudveil
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2006 : 13:29:35

Hi Gerry! Just a note - the sister to your boat is here in
California, has spent her life at Lake Tahoe (Indoors in winter!),
and is now trailer sailing all over the west coast, including Sea
of Cortez (Baja side).

John Wood
'89 C25WK #5973 "Uzumati"

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2006 : 21:28:13

John, that's great, I'll keep my eyes peeled for your tales of adventure on "Uzumati". Interesting how sister boats end up on opposite coasts.

As for my problem, I sure hope you all are right and I simply need to work my way around the stern rebedding hardware. I still suspect, however, that blasted leaking port seal. I crawled into the port lazerette today to try to look around. The gap between the ceiling liner and the aft shelf is only about 1.5", but it is clear the darkest water stains are where the ceiling liner meets the inside transom wall. I need to try to get a mirror back in there and sketch the shape of the hull, but on first look it certainly appears like water has seeped from or near that joint (almost directly above the bilge pump outlet).

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2006 : 13:51:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">All...Let me replace my original question....are there any ways to measure/infer whether a core is waterlogged?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There is no way I know of to tell if the core is wet without exploratory surgery. The core is supposed to be sealed on all sides from the weather. However, if you are real brave, you might be able to drill a hole into the core horizontally from the port locker. Put the wood shavings that come out with the drill into a plastic bag and set it in the sun. If the bag gets moisture on the inside of the bag, there is probably water in the core. I don't know of any other way. The core is 1/4" thick and it is located in the center of the laminate as opposed to at the top or bottom. Please take this advice with a grain of salt.
The easiest way would be to wait until next year and walk on it after the weather is below freezing. If it cracks like ice breaking, there is water in there.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2006 : 06:44:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Happy D
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">All...Let me replace my original question....are there any ways to measure/infer whether a core is waterlogged?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There is no way I know of to tell if the core is wet without exploratory surgery. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There are many different types of meters that can do this without invasive procedures. This is one:
http://www.tramexltd.com/page/skipper.html

Edited by - on

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