Association Forum - Wind Speed Limits on the Cat alina 25

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Wind Speed Limits on the Cat alina 25

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2006 : 16:25:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Alan Clark
 We have a storm jib and than an 80%. We are just bringing our 150% to the National Regatta in Cleveland.. cuz we want to WIN! <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hi Alan... Re-read what Derek said above--that 150 could be an advantage, or a real disadvantage to you, especially on a tall rig, if things pipe up a little on Erie. You don't want to end up having to compete on main alone!

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sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2006 : 20:54:43

Isn't a 155 genoa allowed in class rules? It has been a while since I've raced and I do have a 150 which I did lower and tied with two gaskets (?) on to the deck and bow pulpit just before a summer squal hit. The strong winds got the sail loose and raised it all the way up without a halyard and did I have my hands full. The only way I got it under control was by removing the 150 and shoving it into the cabin. The wind held and after dousing the main and anchoring did things get under control. It was a big lesson for me and the rest of our fleet. One member has locked his anchor to the bow pulpit and he will never forget that.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5890 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2006 : 11:41:49

A 155 is allowed, but Lake Erie can get very windy, and you might need one of those smaller sails if the wind pipes up.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2006 : 20:15:19

Then again lake erie can be a stick in the mud. There's a reason you can carry 3 headsails. I'd recommend bringing everything you have and then checking the weather before check in. Then declare the 3 you want to use. I'd recommend a 155, something mid range and something 90-110. between that and reefing your main you will be able to handle just about anything.

dw

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Alan Clark
Captain

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406 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2006 : 21:21:21

We have sailed on Lake Erie on a Catalina 30 when the winds were 5 knots and than 15 minutes later were 25 knots.. I think its GOOD to Be Prepared! We are looking forward to the racing! (Partying) :) We have also been on Lake Erie with Not a breath of wind for Hours.. In a Race ..isnt that the way ?

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2006 : 10:17:02

It often seems that you struggle through a race in drifter conditions, finally make it over the finish line and the wind immediately pipes up to 10 knots...

Derek

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Rochester
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2006 : 09:44:52

Someone once said, "if you have to think about reefing, you waited too long."

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pjeffarch
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2006 : 20:21:14

Clay - I couldn't agree more! I just learned more in the last five minutes here that the past 50 on other sites! Way to go Catalina 25ers!

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DaveC25
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2006 : 09:33:30

I would have to agree with your friend. Last weekend I was sailing in 20knt winds gusting to 30knts. I would say that it was plain miserable, even with a reef in the main. I had one reef in my main, and a 100% jib. The gusts are what you want to reef for, and I didn't have an extra reef point. So "luckily" I was close hauled, having to beat most of the day NW into NNE winds (trying to make it back from Sebastian, about 20 miles) and when the gusts would come up I would point her windward until they subsided. I ended up ripping the stitches out of one main, but made it back with the spare. The mainsail that tore was old, and the new one didn't have any issues.

I would say that you would need at least one, possibly two reefs in the main in 20knot winds. Of course it depends on which way your going.... if you're on a broad reach or running with the wind you may not need to reef since the apparent wind is less. A beam reach to windward and you'll probably need to reef.

-DaveC25

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bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2006 : 12:58:31

Last Friday night (a week ago) during the Friday Night "Beer Can Race" winds were about 20kts with wind waves and swells combining to make 4-5' seas. I had my 110 up and no reef in the main. We (3 of us) were heeled excessively (water over the rail) with lots of weather helm while sheeted in tight and close-hauled . Our SOG was about 4.5-4.8kts. We came in last in our 'small and slow' division (PHRF >170). I'm kinda used to that position since I'm new at this. Last night the conditions were the same but this time I put more vang on, more outhaul, sheeted in tight, but let the traveler down. We (2 of us this time) were still heeling quite a bit but not with as much weather helm, so our SOG increased to 5.4 - 5.8kts upwind. We had a **terrible** start, but came in 4th. The C25 can really take it.

PS - Downwind, with the whisker pole out we were consistently at 7.5-8.0 kts. with a max speed of 8.2kts. (no current at the time). We had a blast!! :)

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2006 : 15:36:41

A factoid that new sailors are seldom told is that virtually every line, toy or trick on a sailboat is for the sole purpose of depowering the boat. When it blows like stink you need everything hardened to flatten things out, (both the sails and the boat). It is when everything is off that a boat is powered up. New sailors that think a vang is only for racers get in trouble. High tech halyards that will not stretch in a blow are important too! It sounds like you are having a great time, learn to pinch and feather in high wind and you will really learn to love the focus required and level of attention it takes. While others are broaching or rounding up you just keep slicing the wind and moving forward!

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bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2006 : 12:17:25

Actually Frank, I wouldn't say that the "sole purpose" is to depower the boat. These 'lines, toys, or tricks' are to be used to adjust the trim of the sails to the wind speed and desired direction to be sailed, at desired comfort level or speed. The point of my post was to illustrate how well the C25 can handle high wind with a fairly small adjustment in sail trim, without reefing even.

In the first race I had the sails flat but the boom was centered. I knew from experience that I could/should be going faster. So, in the second race I had more vang on (hard to quantify how much more - maybe an inch more?), I sheeted out the main a little (again hard to say how much ... maybe a couple of inches (?)) and had the traveler down; my outhaul was tighter for sure but my main is so blown I don't think it does much of anything to the draft. These relatively small adjustments helped keep the boat more upright, which decreased weather helm, which in turn improved our speed fairly dramatically. I did not adjust the jib cars, which could have helped event more.

I encourage anyone who is concerned about the wind speed limits to experiment with these controls (in higher wind conditions and with crew who is capable and not scared :)). Have a GPS handy so you can see the affect of these adjustments - but give the boat enough time to adjust. Our C25's are kind of heavy and so they accelerate pretty slowly - it takes a while for the effects to be seen.

If speed is the issue instead of comfort (as in a race), it is pretty hard to accept (an it is counter-intuitive), for anyone used to stomping on the gas pedal, that, in a sailboat, to go faster you must 'de-power' - in high wind that is. The numbers tell a different story though.

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At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2006 : 12:42:43

To answer the question in the subject line, I've always thought wind limits are more with the skill and experience level of the crew rather than what the boat can handle. Our boats can handle lots more wind with some crews than with others.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2006 : 16:43:01

Yes - 155% LP is the largest we can have racing.

June winds on lake erie vary greatly. Bring all the sails you have I will be making my choice of 3 between a 155 150 145 and 90.

If I were to guess... Thursday and Friday barring a 80+degree day and any fronts moving through the area the wind will be about 12-15 picking up as the land starts to cool. Saturday is will be blowing and die to almost nothing by noon. Same on Sunday.

Don't leave a sail at home because you think you aren't going to need it. I can gurantee you that the second you do that you will need the sail.

dw

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