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Hull Blister w/ weeping

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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/04/2006 : 21:30:59

Dooooh.... I have a couple of blisters on the under-hull, just to the port side (2-4") of the aft part of the keel. When I purchased the boat, it appeared that this was just where runoff from the deck collected and was no big deal. Once I started sanding the bottom, it appeared more like hull blisters, so I ground 'em down about 1/8-3/16", to be filled as it warmed up and the epoxy would set. HOWEVER, now that it's warm these areas are weeping water.

Any source of good info on how to repair this? Will epoxy be sufficient?

CP25 #183 - Team Short Bus
Capri25 Measurer 2007(ish)-2010
Douse: [dous] v, a: to lower or take in suddenly; b: to stow quickly; c: ease, with vigor
---
Regret is the bastard child of desire and inaction.

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/05/2006 : 04:35:45

The coremat can act like a sponge, let it dry out as much as possible even helping it along with a heat gun.
Epoxy will certainly work, but if it's a sizable area, I'd think you'd want some glass.
This is a useful booklet:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/34224/0/0/blister%20repair/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0

Edited by - on

SailCO26
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Response Posted - 04/05/2006 : 09:17:07

Thanks for the info - the two areas ground out are about dime-sized.

Off to check out the booklet!

Edited by - on

StSimon
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Response Posted - 04/08/2006 : 21:46:54

You aren't going to like this but you really need to stay on the hard until the drying process is complete. The best way to hande this is to sand the bottom down after your fall haulout then wait until just before spring to complete the repairs and new bottom job. If you rush it now you stand the chance of future problems.

Good luck !!!

Edited by - on

SailCO26
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Response Posted - 04/11/2006 : 15:59:21

Yeah, not what I want to hear - but it's what I'm worried about. As the wx warmed up I was getting water out. Now we've had a good string of 70'+ wx and nothing is coming out naturally. I've ground out a couple of other "suspect" areas, and while out sanding yesterday took to blowing compressed air into the hull. This would encourage adtl water to come out, but it's getting less with every time.

Unfortunately, there's no "bilge" access to this point. However, I did find standing h2o in the stbd lazerette - went unoticed by me earlier as there was a film on the top of the water that looked like 'glass! I happened to be peeking in there to determine what size backing plate I need for the motor mount (there's not one...), and noticed the floor jiggling! Doh! I got that out, hopefully that will help as well.

I'm considering epoxying what I have ground out to this point (about 6 dime-sized areas, 3 of which get water with the compressed air) once I stop getting adtl water out; with the plan of doing a more "formal" job next winter (I'd HATE to pay as much as I do for a slip all summer and never get to use it

- let alone miss out on racing

).

When doing unthickened epoxy with a syringe, can one load the syringe by vacuum, or from the back then insert the plunger? 2 of the ground out areas have visible pores that I'd pre-fill with epoxy before adding the thickener and building out to the surface.

Thanks!
Jim

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/11/2006 : 16:22:39

I've got to agree with Andy. If the blisters just had a little blister of water, and, after you burst the blisters, they didn't weep, then I think you could get away with a quickie repair job. But, yours continue to weep. That tells you the condition isn't superficial. It goes deep. If you don't dry it out before you patch it, it's likely that it'll get much worse. Moreover, when you try to patch it, the water that is coming out of the fiberglass will prevent the filler from setting up.

I've heard some marine repair shops have devices that will speed the drying process. I'd suggest you try to find one of those driers, or put heat on the blisters to try to dry them out.

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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1180 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2006 : 21:16:16

Keep in mind Jim that the way the coremat is laid in this hull will leave a few gaps here and there to say the least. The coremat itself acts like a sponge and the keel area is inaccesable from above or below without drilling holes. There is an area below the plywood that the keel bolts through and between the hull that can collect water from various sources. This may be what's coming out. The coremat will not rot, but can remain wet. Dry out what you can, don't barrier coat if you know its not completely dry. Catalina recommends replacing the plywood with glass, a big job, but doable. That would also eliminate that inaccessable area between the hulland the floor. Check your lockers and make sure there aren't any holes for water/condensation to seep down there.

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hwy61sail
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 04/15/2006 : 07:53:09

More information that you may not want to hear. I had a serious problem with water on Persistence. It turns out that the fiberglass protecting the plywood from the bilge water had lost it's seal. So when water seeped into the bilge, it worked its way past the fiberglass seal covering the plywood. Now for the kicker. Below the plywood there is a cavity separating the plywood from the outer hull. Near the keel this cavity has a depth of around 1.5 inches. Of course this cavity would fill up with water during the sailing season. Each fall I would drill two holes and watch the water drain. If you boat is on a trailer I would suggest using your trailer jack to tip the boat back and then drill a 1/4 inch hole through the area you ground out. I would bet that you will have water drain out. So my guess is that the plywood is saturated. My solution involved drilling 1" holes every 6" from the bottom of the hull into the cavity. Then I setup a fan and heater and forced warm air through the cavity over a 6 week period. I then mixed epoxy and filled the cavity. I am sure that the plywood still gets wet from water that sits in the bilge, however the outer hull is now blister free.

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StSimon
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298 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2006 : 00:05:55

Another thought on the subject:

This weekend I watched a video on blister repair from the Gougeon brothers and West Systems. I don't know for sure but you can probably order one on the cheap. They recomended that after sanding down the old paint using a 3/8" countersink bit on the bad blisters. My hull has thousands of spots where some PO repaired blisters. The good repairs are fine but some of them need opening and resealing. I used the countersink bit on them and will follow up with InterProtect and a hard bottom paint (I trailer sail).

The WM guy keeps trying to get me to look at a moisture meter. I've been on the hard for some time and live in Arizona so residual moisture is a non-issue. It might be worth a look see if you have any doubts before sealing her back up.

Good luck and...

Edited by - on

SailCO26
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Response Posted - 04/18/2006 : 09:32:07

Thanks for the adtl info! I've had 'em opened up for about a week now (more in the case of a couple of them), and removed the surprise water from the stbd laz. That seems to have helped greatly, as the last 2 days there's been no dampness at all. I will be trying the air compressor trick again here shortly (time issues as I'm getting ready to go to the Abacos for a week, dam the luck!).

Edited by - on

SailCO26
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Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 15:47:45

Update:

FINALLY got the hull finished. Epoxied the affected areas and all seems sufficiently sound (he says confidently). Got her finish sanded and over the weekend did the paint job. 3 coats of VC17m on the hull, 4 on the keel and rudder, 4-5 on the waterline and centerline fwd of the keel. Will post pics when I get 'em off the camera.

Launch yesterday went easily, esp compared to my Capri 26. Nice to be able to step the mast with the trailer winch. Still have some trailer issues to resolve before pulling at the end of the season (which I'm hoping will be the next time I pull, and not an emergency session before then...). Ran into the race director for our club, he's anxious to have me join them. Hmmm, maybe he's not doing so well and is looking for a marshmallow on the course?

After about 3-4hrs on the water the hull accesses (what there are) still appeared dry (well, as dry as they were when I put the boat in - prior to painting I washed the hull and the sink drain thru-hull was open). The speedo thru-hull (fwd storage under v-berth) did have a small amount of water seeping - I tightened this so HOPEfully that's taken care of.

I stopped by the marina on the way to work this am, and she appears to still be level, and at the same waterline as the night before. Tho it is a looong way from shore to my slip, and I was using a cheapy 8x monocular.

I will be headed back there tonight after work to continue the deck/interior work. EVERYthing that screws/bolts into something else on this boat is loose.

Otoh, I was very pleasantly surprised about the engine. A wee lil 3.5hp that's cosmetically seen better days (a long time ago). Propped it in a bucket of water and she fired right up.

Also pleasant (tho not really a surprise) was the sail selection. All North, all racing, and all in good shape.

The electrical system, on the other hand...

Jim
#183 - Team Short Bus

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Ericson33
Admiral

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892 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 16:24:24

Jim, If you take the long teak boards off of the sides of the hull, up by the hull to deck joint on the inside, you can get to all of the wires going forward. It's best to take out the sink to have full access to the electrical, but all of it can be done by taking the panel off. Check you light bulbs first, None of my running lights worked at all, I took the bulbs out and used a light grit sandpaper on the contacts, and all of them work now. Take a look at the Catalina 25 wire diagram, Its really the same layout for the boat.

Glad to see another Capri 25 in the Midwest, She will sail allot faster than the 26, and allot closer to the water. I might suggest that you make some plugs for the transom drains, I have been going downwind and the cockpit fills up with water, well up to you ancles.

Photos or it never happened.

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SailCO26
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Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 17:00:09

Chris: Thanks for the info. The stock elec panel is pretty much shot. The master sw is broken, and was bypassed at some time. Several other sw's are broken. I've purchased a replacement panel that includes a test meter, since I'm accustomed to having the batts charged by the engine and still need to get a solar panel for this unit. The meter will give me a good feel for my usage/charge requirements.

Also, there's the remains of a battery "box" on the stbd side behind the cooler, opposite the water tank. It might be usable to screw a battery holddown bracket to this, but my batt is smaller than this box so I'd only get one side. Prob not sufficient. Any ideas to put in a new holder? I'm thinking closer to the centerline, since I doubt I'll use the water tank any time soon (and wouldnt racing, anyway)?

The sink's already out - the countertop above the cooler (step) and sink area were tiled at one point. Pulled that, now refinishing the wood (the girlfried has taken this project on!). So at least the elec panel access is easy. btw, do you know if Cat Direct (or others) offer the backflow valve (or whatever it is) between the sink and the thru-hull? This is the first boat I've owned where the sink drain wasnt well above waterline.

Also, I'm not big on the locn of the stock elec panel. I suspect that's why the sw's were broken in the first place! I'm thinking of relocating it to the back panel (behind the step) on the stbd side. Thoughts?

Any suggestions for CD player (car type) location? Also found out yesterday that the radio "installed" (loose term) has 2 power options: 110v AC and D cell batteries. No 12v DC option. Ok by me, that thing must weigh 15# and wont play CDs. Did have a Buffett tape in one of the decks, tho. A1A. One of my favs, but I've passed on that technology. ;)

Jim
#183 - Team Short Bus

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/16/2006 : 18:07:05

Jim,

First, a caveat,I'm an engineer so I tend toward overkill, since in my industry (medical electronics) there is little margin for error.

The stock panel is, as you discovered, less than desirable. I like redundancy and I like my "systems" independant. I am in the process of redoing the electricals on Swimmer.

First, since I like to single hand, I am installing a waterproof panel in the cockpit aft of the traveler and the lockers. PO had put shore power plug there, so I'm going to reuse the abortion, I mean hole. This will have a few switches, predominately lights.

Second, I have a seperate set up and panel for the automatic bilge pump. I really would rather come to the boat with a dead battery than find her under water.

Third, another panel for battery condition and accesories like the instruments and radio, this includes the battery meter.

Now, as I said, I like my systems seperate. I've got a power pack that will run my laptop and any other tools or "stuff" that can be taken off the boat on race days, can be charged in my truck, and can recharge the boat battery. This will come in handy for project days on the mooring, weekend stays and the occasional cruise, anchor, overnight etc. Plus it means I don't permanantly add the burden of more weight and batteries to the boat, but have the convenience of the extra amps when I want them.

My solutions, all as yet untried, so we'll see how it all works out. Just some things to consider.

The battery box: I got a strap and some holders that screw into the glassed wood of the original, works pretty good, holds it firmly. Picked it up at a ham fest, so not sure where you would get one if you're looking for a store.

Music: learn to convert those CD's into MP3's and get an ipod or equivalent, light weight, plug it into a set of self powered PC speakers like the ones Cambridge Soundworks sells and you got hi-fi and portability.

Good luck with her Jim!

Edited by - on

SailCO26
Captain

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 08:59:15

Rick:

I'm not an engineer, I just play one on TV. Or did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express??? Either way, I tend to do the same kinda thing - tho I admit you got me beat big with your plans! :)

On my Capri 26 I did probably 95% single-handing (exc racing), so convenience was definitely an issue. Prob wont solo this one as much.

The replacement elec panel I picked up has a 3" depth requirement, and the back panel (below the companionway) has only 2.5". So much for that theory. Thinking about it now, most of that 3" was for the "cigarette lighter" adapter. I might be able to relocate THAT part and still mount the panel where I want. Will have to look into that.

I've been converting CDs into MP3 and what not for eons (seems like). Used to do a LOT of analog-digital conversions - a killer collection of live "bootleg" recordings from pre-digital days. I might have to consider the iPod thing as well.

As there doesn't seem to be much of a bilge, per se; where did you mount your pump? I'm happy to say that after 24hrs in the water the interior (so far) is bone dry. I'll post some pics when I get 'em uploaded (dam work computer wont support it, will have to do it from home tonight).

Thanks!
Jim
#183 - Team Short Bus

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 11:11:19

I have been colecting some interior photos of the boats to get an idea of what to do in the future as far as upgrades.

Here is the first one, I really like the idea of plexiglass to cover the area where the cooler goes, Note the panel in the middle of the bulkhead, and the main switch where the panel was.

I have seen another Capri 25 (cant find photo) that they added a board ontop of the bulkhead that runs the full distance of the bulkhead from top to bottom and side to side. This will allowed for them to add a full sized CD player on the starboard side, I am guessing that the wires were exposed to the small storage shelf in the rear of the 1/4 birth. It looked really nice, and it stumped me at first because I too have a CD player that I need to install in the boat somewhere. I have MP3's also, but what if I leave it at home? I rather have something on the boat all of the time.

The next one shows a long shelf at the top side of the hull, this has to be a great place to throw misc items, right now everything goes in the sink.

HA, the added mag. holder, I think that its close enough to the head.

And my favorite upgrade, a plumbed in head, I really like the fact that the toilet still fits under the forward V-birth.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 12:29:05

Chris,
If you install the head that way, you have to put a holding tank in the vberth, that means cutting a hole for the plumbing through the tab into the vberth. That tab is structural. One of the reasons I didn't do it that way. The locker behind that head is too small for any holding tanks I was able to find. I suppose you could put a tank under the port quarter berth, but then you have to put the plumbing through the bulk head, another idea I didn't like. These boats flex too much as it is, I didn't want to do anything to add to that.

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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 15:23:57

Chris:
I think that first shot is from a boat for sale in CT? I like that arrangement. Re the head, my main reason for going to the Capri25 was speed, therefore light weight. The marine head in my 26 was GREAT, but heavy!

Got any pics of where people have mounted car-type CD decks?

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/17/2006 : 17:10:59

I knew it was out there I just didnt remember where it was located at.

Check out the T.V.

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SailCO26
Captain

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Response Posted - 05/18/2006 : 08:50:53

Hmmmm, I *like* that! Might just have to go with that one. Winter proj, tho. Like the idea of the table, as well, could even leave that in the dockbox for racing. Will pass on the TV, tho. The picture of the lake or girlfriend is better. :)

Great info, thank!
Jim
#183 - Team Short Bus

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