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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Drifter Sail

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SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/25/2006 : 08:26:30

Does anyone have a drifter sail ?
I am going to run a seperate spinnaker halyard
so I can leave the the jib furled.
the pictures I have seen look like it tacks on
the iside of the jib .
I`m trying to find the best place for the bock up top.
the bottom one gets attached to the extra holes by the furling drum.
I have a shaefer furler, the sails is from ullman

Thanks Sean

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2006 : 08:31:45

Arlyn has one and some info on his site.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 03/25/2006 : 10:27:09

Sean, I've answered by email but will make further comments here as very often a question is of value to others.

I'm not intimately familiar with the shaefer furler rigging but know of course that it uses the jib halyard and that you will need an additional halyard for the drifter.

The question that first needs answered and I've been in hopes now for some years that a shaefer furler owner will discuss this with the sail loft and get an answer... is tacking the drifter. Many furlers which use the jib halyard require a turning block or eye strap slightly down from the mast truck to avoid halyard wraps on the furler. Does the shaefer employ such? I think the answer is yes, but I'm not sure.

If no...that no front mast device is employed with the furler... then good, there should be no problem.

Now to the halyard... the best and far easiest (no need to drop mast or go aloft even if the halyard is lost aloft) place for the halyard block is on the shackle for the jib halyard. This will mean using a pigtail between the furler and the jib halyard so that the jib halyard shackle can by hauled as close to the mast truck as possibly leaving just enough to luff tension the jib (or better yet, using a downhaul method to luff tension the jib).

So, if no turning device on the front of the mast...problem is solved and solution simple.

If there is... then hopefull the same technique can be used for the drifter halyard block but it will only be able to be hauled to the device which will leave it short of the mast truck and I'm not sure the luff dimension can deal with that and hence why this should be discussed with the sailmaker so that if needed a shorter luff can be cut.

If faced with a luff too long to go this route then the options are two... send the sail back to the loft or tack it like an asymmetrical foreward of the stay. If going that route, a spinnaker halyard settup will be needed. I don't know about the shaefer but the CDI wont tolerate a spinnaker halyard without a mast crane to move the block forward a few inches.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 03/25/2006 11:00:50

Robert
1st Mate

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USA
75 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2006 : 11:41:35

Sean:
I have an asymmetrical spinnaker and I use an ATA Tacker. I mounted a snap shakle that attaches in the anchor locker and sticks up through the anchor line feed so it is above the deck. The Tacker snaps around your furled jib and a down haul sheet is lead back to the cockpit so I can adjust the tack. It works great and it keeps the a.s. tack on the center line.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2006 : 14:30:09

I have a Shaefer furler and had to attach a spin haylard to the mast. The forward pin position on the masthead is not used on the for a Shaefer furler so just get a 2"x1/4" clevis pin and attach a small block in the foreward hole on the masthead and run you halyard through it. This places it forward of the furler and thus I tack my drifter forward of the jib furler. The tack is done the same with a block attach forward of the furler drum. When I tack the boat I release the sail tack which causes the sail to fly out and then pull it across as I start the tack. I do it this way because I'm single handed most of the time and there is no one else on board to pull the sail across at the bow. I will try and get some pictures later today for visuals.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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772 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2006 : 17:56:55

thanks everybody,
so frog my forward pin is open too up top . where do you attatch the lower block . I have empty holes faceing back but nothing forward.
I thought to use the spinnaker halyard to hold the jib and the jib halyard for the drifter .
do you think that would work.
also if you raise the jib up (instead of shackleing to the drum use rope to tie the two)
and raise 8" or so, you might not need that halyard retainer .
I would like to tack behind the jib.But if your doing it with a bigger sail ,I could do it with the drifter its a 155.
I also sail solo alot during the week

Edited by - SEAN on 03/25/2006 18:09:01

SEAN
Admiral

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772 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2006 : 18:04:46

Thanks Rob
the block is above the locker with atachment inside , or the whole thing is in the locker ?

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2006 : 21:42:53

If you use the spin haylard to hold up the jib and eliminate the retainer the head swivel will spin and wrap the spin haylard around the headstay when you try to unfurl the jib and lock it up. The retainer was added to the Schaefer system to prevent this. The installations instructions specify that the head swivel be no more than five inches below the foil top cap. So at most you could only raise it five inches.
Here are the pictures of my setup. I did give false info about the tack block. I did start with it on the headstay chainplate, but could not tack the sail correctly with it there so I add a clamp to the bow plup forward of the furler drum and it solved my problem.

Masthead block and spin haylard

Tack block forward of the furler drum

Tack line through fair lead to camcleat.

Spin tack deck camcleat

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 10:08:05

I see
very nice ,thanks for the photos.
how did you get that front clamp on were you able to take that 1 bolt out and get it on or was it a project loosing everything ? I forgot how its put together I know it was all one piece . how is it tacking ,when your solo do you have to walk forward to push the sail around .I just got a auto pilot to help out . I had a stering break but you still wined up driveing in slow circles if you leave it too long.
My 110 jib had to get raised anyway the restrainer was to high and it would rap around (it was easyer to raise it than lower the retainer ,we found out after it was in the water)
Its not bad up a little you can see under it.

Thanks Frog
By the way nice roller too ,I remember reading about it last year or something . I thought you wanted to take that front pin out to get it in the locker quicker .

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 11:40:30

Jerry's pics certainly verify the value of pics over a thousand words.

And, they demonstrate clearly the point that someone ordering a drifter for a 250 and who wishes to tack it as a genoa should communicate that they are using a shaefer furler so that the sail luff can be shortened slightly.

A drifter is capable of close reach courses in light air and it is some advantage to tack it as a genoa rather than an asymmetrical. This is not a problem with the CDI furler and would be no problem with the Shaefer furler if the luff were cut to deal with the "retainer".

My last point is something I caught in Jerry's pic...that Catalina moved the location of the bow light. I don't know if it was to meet lighting regs but it does get the light fixture down and out of a position to do damage to a drifter or asymmetrical. Earlier hull numbers have the fixture near the top rail of the bow pulpit where snagging it would be a disaster. If someone equips their earlier hull number with a light air sail tacking forward of the stay, they may wish to move the light.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 17:02:45

The clamp is called a pulpit anchor. It is on page 853, model 114785, $10.79 of the 06 WM catalog. if has two small bolts that you remoce and then spread it apart to slip over the pulpit tubes. Then reinstall the bolts.
I don't have to go forward at all. By releasing the sail tack and letting the sail fly out I can then pull it across from the cockpit. Before when I had the tack block attached to the forstay chainplate it would get tangled up and I would have to lock the wheel and go forward after I made the boat tack and got everything stable. It was a big pain until someone told me that I need to move the sail tack block forward to allow the sail to fly out and about the pulpirt anchor.
I intend to remove the pin when the boat hits the hard the 24th of April for a week of bottom work.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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772 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 18:26:25

Thanks Jerry and Arlyn,

Edited by - SEAN on 03/26/2006 18:43:33

SEAN
Admiral

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772 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 18:46:29

Jerry still learning the site, I see now how to find the persons name .
Thanks

Edited by - on

mday
Navigator

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197 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2006 : 23:24:09

Jerry,

Did I read right? You pull your drifter across the front of the furler when tacking? That must be a sight!!!! Do your sheets go all the way up around the furler too? I know mine were long, but I dont think that long! And this doesn't cause any tangling???? Or drooping into the water????

Mine seems to behave itself fairly well going downwind and is fairly easy to pull over when jibing. The only time it seems to get cumbersome is going into the wind more than 90 degrees. At that point, I think the standard jib works better anyway.

Max

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2006 : 07:44:04

found this via google.
http://www.yagersails.com/driftpk.htm
The links on the page show goog info too.

Paul

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2006 : 08:30:14

The sheets do go around the furler. Yes, there were some problems with them before I starter releasing the tack. This lets the sail fly out which increases the space between the furler and the drifter which allows the sail to come across clean. I also do it just before I tack the boat so there is enough wind to blow it out. I don't try t get it set completely, but the purpose is to get all the cloth to the other side of the furler without getting tangle. Yes, it backwinds for a short time, but it does not effect the boat since the sheet is not set. I will then tack the boat set the main, haul in the drifter tack line and sheet in the sail. Mind you this is not a racing manuver just a cruising one. When racing in light winds and single handed I use the furler jib so I can be at least a little competive in the Beer Can races. That is basically all the racing I do now days except for the annual MUG Race, but I have a crew for that one so I can have a foredeck person to handle the drifter if the winds are light enough to fly it and at the start they usually are light to none sometimes.

Edited by - on

JohnMD
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207 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2006 : 09:11:02

I'm sure this has been asked and answered somewhere else, but, is there a difference between a drifter and an asymetrical spinnaker?

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2006 : 16:20:23

John, Yes, a drifter is cut much like a genoa and is normally tacked rather than jibed and will sail up to a close reach and of course made of light materiel.

An asymmetrical is cut fuller of light air materiel as well and is designed for better off wind performance and is jibed around the forestay rather than tacked as a headsail. Though I have no experience with an asymmetrical, I think it is good up to a beam reach (someone help me here if I'm wrong).

Jerry, it seems to me that jibing might be the easier for boats settup to take the sail forward of the stay. Aft of the stay, tacking is much easier.

It is my understanding that a drifter like an asymmetrical is much easier to manage with a sock though again, I've no experience with one. I set and douse by always coming to a starboard run and handle it in the lee of the main which works ok but is the only course which allows handing it single handed.

If a drifter were to be used for racing, in my opinion a sock would be a must.

Edited by - on

JohnMD
Navigator

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207 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2006 : 16:38:56

So a drifter is a lot like a 155 jib only made of much lighter material?

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2006 : 18:44:43

Jibing the boat is a great deal easier when pulling the drifter foreward of the furler, but the challenge taking the shorter route and tacking the boat is the fun part of light wind sailing. The sock would be a good thing to have and I have been considering it for my next sail related purchase. Sure would make it easier to put it away when done using it.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2006 : 09:48:21

Hey Jerry ,

I talked to a sail maker today he liked your setup,
He said a sock and tacker is all he would add .
we dont race so he told me pull the sock down ,tack , reset the sail . he has a tacker made out of large beeds ,says it rolls up and down the sail easy.

Edited by - on

frog0911
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Response Posted - 04/01/2006 : 18:44:51

I use my drifter for cruising 90% of the time so the sock would be ideal, to do both tack and stow. The only problem with using it or a tacker is someone would have to go forward to pull them down and then up. I usually single handed so runing forward pull it down, then back to the cockpit to pull the sail over, then back to pull either up, then back to the cockpit to set. Boy, I need a nap just talking about it. I am about to try a bow sprit operation to see if that would work better. That way I would not have to release the tack just pull it across. I will use my wisper pole as the sprit and the tack line to hold the pole down. I figure about four feet past the pulpit should do it. I was going to try it today, but the winds never droped enough(10G18) so I just sailed around for three hours.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 04/01/2006 : 19:09:52

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I will use my wisper pole as the sprit <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Shhhhs! do it ever so quietly

Paul

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frog0911
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Response Posted - 04/02/2006 : 18:53:07

Brain much to fast for hands. However, that was the idea, but I opened my big mouth so now if I bend it everyone will know.

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