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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Reefing question:

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/25/2006 : 00:34:32

The reefing line on my 250 is lead thru a block and then aft thru a starboard clutch. S

houldn't pulling on it secure both the tack and the clew with a steady continuous pull? Not mine. I have to assist the clew line, tugging and pulling, to get the reef set, and it should be a smooth, single handed, single line operation. Is this just me doing it wrong or is there a design/manufacture flaw in the way the reefing system is rigged on 250's?

Frank Farmer
Long Beach, CA
aa.diver@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/aa.diver

PRETTY PENNY
'01 C-250 WK, Hull #558

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2006 : 07:27:45

Frank, IMHO the stock jiffy reefing setup on the 250 needs help as there is simply too much drag in the system to work properly.

There are numerous options depending on your requirements. As the decision of what is wanted unfolds, the course for that direction will fork from the choices others make for their needs.

If wishing for a single line system led aft for each reef point, abandon the interior boom routing on the first reef and use exterior routing for both reefs.

Hardware to do this would be a double cheek block forward on side of the boom and two rail mounted cheek blocks aft mounted on a single track.

Line routing is as follows for both. The reefing line is made to the becket of the cheek block and crosses under the boom, up thru the reef clew and back down thru the cheek block and forward to and thru the fore cheek block, up thru the reef tack and down to deck turning block and aft to clutch.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 03/25/2006 07:30:49

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2006 : 13:57:28

Aryln's explaination on the drag cause by the line running through the main is correct, but I don't advocate running both lines outside the boom when the one presently installed works fine if you remove the drag at the cringles. Here is the way I did it and it really is "smooth as glass" and that is on all points of sail.
http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7795& SearchTerms=single,line,reefing

Edited by - frog0911 on 03/25/2006 14:02:45

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 03/25/2006 : 19:27:51

The prime source of drag in the Catalina reef settup is the very small 350 degree turn block on the port side of the mast. Catalina uses it to make interior routing of the reefing line possible.

It is a fraught system demonstrated by Catalina's discontinuance of running the reefing line aft thru deck organizers where the temptation to put the line on a winch has caused Catalina warranty repairs... not to mention the many popped sail slugs from use of a winch to reef.

To use the technique which Frog is advocating to reduce the drag at the reef clew and tack and leave the major drag point at the mast block is not the best solution in my opinion, especially when the technique of side loading the tack and reef grommets is suspect practice that may damage the sail.

Unless someone is a fair weather sailor only, both reef points need to be rigged and ready to set on a 250. The second reef must be external anyway... so why not do both the same and avoid potential sail damage.

The extra cost of a cheek block and half the double cheek is not major money over the blocks and rings proposed to be used at the grommets.

Another issue is that using the cheek blocks externally will capture the sail shelf when the sail is reefed and avoid having it hang loose and block vision or require the risky to the sail process of using sail gaskets.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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966 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2006 : 20:57:31

I'm lost

Pricisely how do I bypass the existing reef system and rig a single line for both tack and clew that reefs easily with one line through one of the clutches? I know y'all 'splained it, but please make it simpler and with pics, por favor. Grassy-ass.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2006 : 22:18:42

The mast block of which Aryln speaks can be a pain if the reefing lines are left to dangle when lowering the main from a full up position. This does not hender the lowering process, but the next time you raise the main it will catch and will not allow the main to be raised fully. This to me is not a drag problem, but a design fault. The drag IMHO comes from pulling a line across a flat piece of steel , cringle, when the line rises vertically goes through the cringle then down vertically. However, if during the lowering process I put in the first reef the line stays tight around the block so the next time I raise the main I release the reef as I pull up the main and eliminate the drag/lockup problem of the small mast block. As for the side loads there is some, but, I would say most of the loading is vertical. I have continually check the sail for problems with this and have not found any weak areas around the cringles for over two years now.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 12:08:00

Frank... here is a Harken pic of their reefing settup.. note it shows rigging for one reef instead of the desired two on our boats.

It also shows the forward block on the mast giving a more forward pull to the reef tack and a corresponding block on the mast on the port side to effect the same forward pull and balance the tension on the tack if the boat is tacked.

Some put a cheek block or double cheek block as far forward on the boom as possible and find it works satisfactory, eliminating the port mast block.

Note the aft block on the track and that the line originates at the becket of the block and goes under the boom and then up to the reef cringle, the effect of this is to provide a proper angle of pull for the reef because the reef line serves as both outhaul and downhaul.

The effect of the line going under the boom also serves to capture the sail shelf so that it isn't all hanging below the boom.

Last, it is important to remember that a different world exist for the trailer sailor who is not likely to lead lines aft or have a flaking system... we are used to managing the sail from on the coach roof and take it all in stride.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 03/26/2006 12:18:04

AADIVER
Admiral

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966 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 13:56:53

May I assume the first step is to remove the factory installed reefing line completely? I would be leading the new reefing line through a starboard block at the base of the mast and back to the starboard reef line clutch, so wouldn't I have to reverse the way it's rigged in the drawing?

Edited by - AADIVER on 03/26/2006 19:18:12

Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 20:06:57

Yep... but if I detected correctly, your thinking one reef point only and in fact that is what you asked about... and it was me that was thinking two because IMHO the 250 needs both points settup.

For the one point... Jerry's method might be a worthy way to go (no boom work). I have to remind myself occcassionally that I cut my teeth on a Hobie Cat and am an aggressive sailor and sailing aggressive venues.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 03/26/2006 20:14:49

AADIVER
Admiral

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966 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2006 : 20:22:56

For local coastal and occasional channel island sailing here in Southern California, the first reef is sufficient. If conditions require the second reef we don't go sailing. For even the windiest days out here, a furled jib and single reef in the main is all that's required.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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Response Posted - 03/27/2006 : 17:12:35

Removed the Catalina installed interior reefing line, set cheek blocks fore and aft, ran the line thru them, down to the mast base block, then aft to the starboard clutch. Now the sail reefs with one easy pull. A K.I.S.S. mod that Catalina Yachts should seriously consider. Thanks to all of you for your excellent suggestions.

Edited by - on

JohnMD
Navigator

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207 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2006 : 21:25:22

Mr. Farmhand, how about a couple of pictures? thanks

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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966 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2006 : 10:57:30

Here's the clew reef. From that small block the line leads forward along the port side of the boom, thru a tack block, down to a mast base block, then aft to a starboard clutch. One change I have to make: thread the bitter end around the boom and knot it thru the cringle that's directly below the aft reef cringle.

Edited by - AADIVER on 03/29/2006 19:25:53

welshoff
Captain

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253 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2006 : 12:22:33

Frank,
I think the reef line should be tied to the boom through the grommet in the sail (below the reef clew). Then run up through the reef clew, through the block on end of boom, and continue down portside of boom as you explained. I am not sure where your reef line (on the starboard side of the sail in your photo) goes after it enters the sail clew at the end of the boom?

You can see the how the reef line is tied on my boom in the picture below.

Then when you pull the reef line, it will pull the sail down and back on the boom.

Edited by - welshoff on 03/29/2006 12:37:42

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5895 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2006 : 12:50:55

Frank, look at the drawing in Arlyn's post, above. There is a cheek block attached to the starboard side of the boom, just below the reefing grommet, and slightly aft of it. The reef line is first tied to a becket on that cheek block, then it is run under the boom, up the other side and through the reefing grommet in the sail, and then down through the cheek block. Then the line is led forward, along the boom. When you pull on the reefing line, it pulls the reefing grommet down to the boom.

Edited by - on

JohnMD
Navigator

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Response Posted - 03/29/2006 : 12:53:15

I copied this out of my owners manual. Hope it helps.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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966 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2006 : 13:33:13

John, that's the interior lead, Catalina factory delivered reef system and it sucks bigtime. I removed it entirely and used the line to rig the system OUTSIDE the boom per my pic and description. The line is figure 8 knotted through the clew cringle, led up and through the aft reef cringle, down to a small block, then forward to a small block near the gooseneck, up to and thru the forward reef cringle, then down to a starboard mast base block, back thru the starboard cheek block, finally aft to the starboard clutch. Now why isn't this understandable by anyone??

Edited by - on

welshoff
Captain

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253 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2006 : 13:45:17

Frank,
The end of the reef line needs to tie around the boom first then run up through the reef clew and back to the block at the end of the boom. See the picture John posted detailing the sheet routing, you can see the line tied around the boom on the photo I posted - it is just aft of the main sheet. It should not be figure eight knotted threw the clew. This will pull the sail down to the boom as well as pulling it back to the block at the end of your boom.

A check block could be used on the side of the boom located aft of the reef clew. This would be in lieu of the block you have at the end of the boom. This would provide a better angle for the reef line as it pulls through the reef clew and down to the boom.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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Response Posted - 03/29/2006 : 14:25:38

Now THAT, Mr. Eishoff, I understand and will do! My use of the small block at the aft end of the boom was to avoid drilling any more holes in the boom. Yes, the angle would be improved with a lower cheek block on the port side of the boom,but I doubt that much to matter. Thanks!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 03/29/2006 : 14:26:21

John, at first I thought the same as you, that he should just tie the end of the reef line around the end of the boom, but if you look at the photo of his reefed sail, it wouldn't improve the angle of the reef line to the cringle. The reef line should pull down more, to bring the cringle down closer to the boom. The only way I can see for him to do that is to mount a cheek block with a becket on the side of the boom. It would be even better if he would mount a sliding block on a short piece of track, as shown in Arlyn's drawing, so the cheek block can be adjusted fore and aft. Then, if he decided to have a second set of reef points, he could adjust it further forward, so that it will pull the second reef cringle down to the boom. I did it that way on my boat, and it worked well.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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Response Posted - 03/29/2006 : 18:06:38

Steve, you are absolutely correct, but before I removed the factory installed reef line, it did exit the aft end of the boom around a sheave, side by side with the outhaul sheave. My small block attached to the boom pigtail eye basically reproduces the original installation. All I have to do now is thread the bitter end through the grommet below the aft reef grommet instead of through the grommet at the outhaul. Whew! End of topic.

Edited by - AADIVER on 03/29/2006 19:23:07

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