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wind tolerance

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River Harley
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Initially Posted - 10/02/2005 : 17:30:27

Someone recently posted questions about the C250's performance in considerable wind. I have viewed Arlyn Stewart's footage of a windy crossing on his website. Arlyn, do you recall how many knots the wind was blowing that day? I'm very curious. It gave me some confidence in the boats's tolerances (I am aware of the handler's skill factor as well.)

River Harley

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Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 10/03/2005 : 13:36:46

The wind in the video was 15-18 and held most of the duration for a 90 mile crossing of Lake Huron.

Four years ago, we had a 65 mile broad reach in 25-30 and it was traversed under jib only sometimes as little as half the 110. It demanded a 12 hr stint on the helm with no break... I was tarred. The auto pilot could not handle the anticipatory helming needed to avoid broaching.
One might wonder why it took 12 hours for 65 miles with all that wind. Certainly if I'd pushed it we could have made it in far less time... but I felt it wise to keep the hull speed a knot under so as not to overstress the forestay. When out of sight of land for along periods... one uses restraint over reckless.

If I had that course to run again however, I would try some warps so as to possibly keep the main up rather than going to the headsail. If missing veining the rudder at exactly the right moment, she'd broach even with a deep 2nd reef.

Basically, I feel little intimidation in less than 25 but above that gets wild on the 250. Keep in mind, most of my sailing is Great Lakes where the rule of thumb is a foot of swell for every five mph of wind and six feet of steep short swell is nasty and I'm an old beach cat sailor that likes it rough. Smaller inland lakes or the ocean should handle up to 25 with a a little more ease so should be ok for the moderate agressive sailor. If a skiddish crewmember is aboard, 20 mph or even less might be a reasonable rule.

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River Harley
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Response Posted - 10/03/2005 : 21:47:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 The wind in the video was 15-18 and held most of the duration for a 90 mile crossing of Lake Huron.

Four years ago, we had a 65 mile broad reach in 25-30 and it was traversed under jib only sometimes as little as half the 110. It demanded a 12 hr stint on the helm with no break... I was tarred. The auto pilot could not handle the anticipatory helming needed to avoid broaching.
One might wonder why it took 12 hours for 65 miles with all that wind. Certainly if I'd pushed it we could have made it in far less time... but I felt it wise to keep the hull speed a knot under so as not to overstress the forestay. When out of sight of land for along periods... one uses restraint over reckless.

If I had that course to run again however, I would try some warps so as to possibly keep the main up rather than going to the headsail. If missing veining the rudder at exactly the right moment, she'd broach even with a deep 2nd reef.

Basically, I feel little intimidation in less than 25 but above that gets wild on the 250. Keep in mind, most of my sailing is Great Lakes where the rule of thumb is a foot of swell for every five mph of wind and six feet of steep short swell is nasty and I'm an old beach cat sailor that likes it rough. Smaller inland lakes or the ocean should handle up to 25 with a a little more ease so should be ok for the moderate agressive sailor. If a skiddish crewmember is aboard, 20 mph or even less might be a reasonable rule.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Very interesting....how does the 250's performance in such amounts of wind compare with other comparable size boats and other designs?

River Harley

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JohnMD
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Response Posted - 10/04/2005 : 04:45:21

Arlyn, being an old beach cat sailor, you might like to know that they're having a Hobie Cat regatta at Lake Tawakoni this weekend. Come on out and see if you remember what it's like. Look for us, 52531.

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Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 10/04/2005 : 07:55:40

River,

My remarks are about the water ballast. It offers a resistance to hobby horsing that greatly increases its comfort level in a seaway. A maritime reader can't avoid hearing the testimony of sea goers that a full keel boat is a blessing in a seaway. The 250 water ballast mimics a full keeler's ride without the problems steerage.

For mostly this reason, I've been able to passage Great Lakes conditions that some (including much larger) boats find uncomfortable enough to avoid.

As to comparisons... I think the same dynamic applies to the Mac's. A lot of the Mac water ballast are seeing quite a bit of sailing of the Great Lakes and accross the gulf stream and seem to do so with little problems.

IMHO, the Hunter 240 may be slightly too short to fully exploit this water ballast advantage. I've not read much about Hunter 260's and cruising so have no opinion there.

The sailing abilities of the 250 aren't fantastic but are reasonable. They are in the range of the Mac 25D, albeit slightly slower, but heavier than the Mac, will be more comfortable in a seaway.

The 250 water ballast suffers a lot of leeway in a stiff breese and rough seaway. I've beat into water and wind that limited VMG to around 1.3 mph while sailing 6 mph. The track angles in these conditions can easily be 130 degrees and I've seen worse. The only good news is that the ride isn't punishing.

1.3 VMG isn't a reasonable cruising speed however, which leaves the outboard. The 250 water ballast with an outboard with an xls has no problems handling very rough conditions. There is no break out even in a very steep chop with the motor mounted in the well.

Also, under motor, the resistance that provides comfort in a seaway has at least one drawback, when taking on high steep chop ahead, the boat has to be slowed to about 3.5 mph to keep from launching off crest and pounding hard into troughs.

3.5 however is a reasonable cruising speed for a passage of 25-30 miles whearas 1.3 isn't.

I hardly ever motorsail. Winds too light to make decent time are insufficient to hold sails from flogging if motoring. The 250 is pushed so easily by her motor that to motor at all will outpace the sails.

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