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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Confusion after seeing C250WK for first time

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kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/17/2005 : 02:33:09

I spent some time today with the owner of an '04 C250WK. Some of his comments confused me, and I am wondering if I misunderstood him, and if his experiences are shared with others who have the C250WK. I am trying to decide between the C250WK and a new Hunter 25, if you have the patience for what is probably a repeat question, please help me here...

1.) He says that in 20 knots of wind with half furled 135 and two (!) reefs, he has trouble with his boat rounding up out of control unless he pops the main sheet. I thought this problem was fixed by Catalina in later models, but he has an '04.

2.) His boat may of had some rigging changes he does not know about. His winches have been move back to 3/4 of the way aft on the cockpit rail for example. Anyway, on his boat, his 135 is rigged outside of the shrouds, but if he furls it part way, it rubs on the shrouds. Is this normal? He speculates that with a 110, it would have to be lead inside the shrouds... He also thinks (from pictures) that the jib traveler (can't remember the proper name) on each side is in a different position, further away from the centerline of the boat, on newer ('05) boats. Anyone aware of changes like this recently from the factory?

Thanks,

Kevin

Kevin Mackenzie
Former Association Secretary and Commodore
"Dogs Allowed"
'06 C250WK #881
and
"Jasmine"
'01 Maine Cat 30 #34

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2005 : 14:10:15

The '04 at the local Catalina dealer still has the winches on the cabintop so it sounds like that has been modified. The headsail is the afterburner on the C250 so a 135 would be a handful, but I can't imagine not being able to handle the boat with the jib furled & 2 reefs unless he's got way to much weight aft (which makes the boat ride on its flat bottom in the back). If I understand correctly the water tank in now in the bow so that shouldn't be a problem with the water tank full.

Edited by - on

welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2005 : 11:02:11

Kevin,
We went over a lot of boat issues in a short time Friday, but I did enjoy showing you my boat.

A couple clarifications to your questions.

1) The boat as designed will round up when overpowered by wind. It is probably a function of the shape of the hull and the rudder? I indicated that despite the sail combination, when gusts hit the boat it has a tendancy to round up. This I offset by releasing the main and depowering the boat. Other than the gusts, if you have the right sail combination and keep the boat on her feet, she is a good performer and tracks well. Wind above about 12-15 Knots I use a reefed main and keep the Genoa at 135%. As the wind increases I will then furl the head sail to trim the boat as needed. (I currently don't have a second reef rigged).

2) The winches have been moved by previous owner to the coamings from the coach roof. The is where the factory should have put them to begin with (in my opinion). I lead my genoa sheets around the shrounds and inside of the lifelines. If the head sail is furled and pending point of sail, the lines will rub on the shrouds. Previous posts in this forum have discussed two sets of jib lines to avoid this issue (one outside and one inside shrouds). I myself don't see the necessity of this set up as I usually keep the 135% genoa flying. Previous posts/pictures on this site have shown the '05 jib tracks mounted further outboard. This would help with the jib sheeting for the larger head sails. But I think would reduce pointing if using a 110% head sail as these can be ran inside the shrouds.

Hopefully this helps and good luck on your search.

Edited by - on

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2005 : 13:34:19

I have a '99 WK with a 110. It has been our experience that sailing the boat flat is very important. Above about 12 knots we put the 1st reef in. After 15 knots or so we furl the jib about half way. We have sailed the boat under 2 reefs and a small jib in winds approaching 20 knots. I have never been successful sailing the boat easily above say 22 knots. My feeling is the boat is tender but sailed conservatively it is fine. My wife is a good sport about sailing as long as I can keep the heel to a minimum. I can't comment about the Hunter but if you want a heavy weather boat there are better choices in my opinion. We like the 250 because it is very comfortable, a good value for the money and has excellent visibility.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2005 : 20:21:52

Will,

I am sorry if I misstated what you told me. Reading what I wrote and what you wrote, I don't see a conflict between the two, but probably that is because I know less about sailing and these boats than you do. In any case, it was very kind of you to show me your boat over the weekend, and I thank you very much for your time. I wish there had been wind, the only thing between me and purchasing at 250WK at this point is a short sail to make sure I like the way it performs. I did learn from my time on your boat that I think I want a tiller instead of a wheel, it is to hard for old fat guys like me to get between the backstays and the wheel... ;-)

My comment about their being changes that you might not know about was only because the winches had been moved, I figured other stuff could have been moved. Now that I reread it, I guess that insults your knowledge of your boat, *sorry*.

I wish I could find someone who had sailed both a C250WK and a C25SK so I could get a tenderness comparison. (I have sailed the C25SK, so it would be a good basis for communication.)

Like I said Will, thanks, and no offense intended.

Kevin

Edited by - kevinmac on 09/19/2005 20:23:33

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2005 : 22:34:11

Kevin - you need to talk to Jerry Mulvihills (aka Frog & The General). He sold his C25 ("Pretty Penny") and now has a C250 ("Pretty Penny II").
Derek

Edited by - on

welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2005 : 10:40:38

Kevin,
No offense was taken! I enjoyed meeting you and showing off my boat. I sometimes can get to rambling about the boat and gave you too much information too fast.

FYI (if this helps?)- I went with the C250 for my boat for a couple of reasons:

1) newer boat - very wife freindly
2) trailer ability
3) less maintance (no inboard, no through hulls, no teak on deck)
4) open cockpit/transom
5) outboard motor
6) cost (I still have 4 kids to get through college)

I think every boat has strengths and weeknesses - one just has to prioritize your needs and expected use of the boat.

Edited by - on

Auburn80
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2005 : 14:38:28

Interesting summary Wil and it helps me a lot as I'm very close to committing to a C250. One question though. . . you have no thru hulls? Where do your sink drains go? Thanks a bunch!

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frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2005 : 16:16:52

The sinks drain through the hull but above the water line.

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tizer2
1st Mate

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Canada
33 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2005 : 18:09:26

After an exhaustive 2 year search, I too recently purchased a new 250WK although I have not yet taken delivery. One of the key factors in my decision was the availability of this forum with all the informative views and help/advice offered. Can't put a price on that! I have now become a member and it is the best $26 boating money spent.

Edited by - on

Auburn80
1st Mate

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60 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2005 : 21:39:15

Thanks frankr; I didn't know that. Any issues with bugs & spiders clogging the drains? Here in the South, Dirt Daubers (Dobbers?) and wasps and spiders love boats. So many nice nooks and crannies to build their nests and webs!

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2005 : 21:57:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Auburn80
 Thanks frankr; I didn't know that. Any issues with bugs & spiders clogging the drains? Here in the South, Dirt Daubers (Dobbers?) and wasps and spiders love boats. So many nice nooks and crannies to build their nests and webs!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Here in VA I haven't had any problems with critters in my through hulls. Perhaps they don't like the movement of the boat.

Edited by - on

frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2005 : 11:19:16

No problems with the insect world - but have had to tie the sail cover down around where the main sheet connects to the boom because the swallows try to build nests in there. If you have wasp/spider problems try shooting some wasp spray into the holes.

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cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2005 : 21:44:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frankr
 No problems with the insect world - but have had to tie the sail cover down around where the main sheet connects to the boom because the swallows try to build nests in there.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We've had swallows build a nest at the end of our boom once. Now we're very careful not to leave them anywhere cozy for them to nest in the spring.

Edited by - on

bill bosworth
Navigator

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USA
172 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2005 : 07:53:04

Wasps!! I have more red dirt spots on my main, they love to get under the sail cover and make their nests. When we raise the sail the nest drops onto the deck scattering mud and spiders!!

Kevin;
I know you are looking at the 250 wing, we have a 1995 wb that we love. My wife and I have been sailing for over 30 years, this is our 4th auxilary sail boat, the others had fin keels. My wife loves this boat and will go out in any kind of weather, she has complete confidence in it and in its ability to handle any kind of weather. We have sailed in some very strong winds, we are sure to reef when needed (usually don't reef the jib) and have only been in one blow where we decided to drop the sail and motor back. (it was blowing stink, right on the nose). I would guess the boats sail plan was designed to power the boat well (to hull speed) in winds under 10mph, this is important to us, as most days are in this range, The boat really comes alive between 10 and 15, between 15 and 20 reefs are needed, and ride will keep you awake.
We find the boat to be a real joy, both in creature comforts, and in sailing ability, our last two boats were a cal 25 and a cal 25 II, both very able boats. We live on a large lake in North Carolina, We have the feeling that Catalina must have designed this boat with us in mind.
Good luck with your desision
Bill c250wb #134 Serendipity

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2005 : 20:16:29

Kevin,

I am a C25 owner but the same principle applies. Both the 25 and 250 were designed for inshore day or weekend family sailing. The C25 will handle heavier air than the 250 with it's stock equipment because it is a heavier boat. It needs heavy air (10-15 knots)to move it to hull speed.The 250 is a comparatively light boat requiring far less wind to move and is thus tender, as I understand it, at winds exceeding 15 knots. Both boats however, with any boat of any size in fact, if you want to sail offshore (beyond five miles)for extended periods (or exceed certain weather parameters), you will have to properly equip your boat for the worst conditions you can expect to encounter. This may include two reefs in your main (a custom job Catalina doesn't offer), a furling headsail or a storm sail, jack lines, spare anchor and rhode, etc.. In the past 16 years I've spent several thousand dollars equiping and confguring my boat so that I can sail offshore, signle handed, for extended periods. I am confident that my C25 and I can handle all but the most extreme conditions in my sailing area (Lake Superior). being from the Portland area I suspect you'll be sailing the Sound and the San Juans where there are many sheltered "hidey holes" to duck into in case of bad weather. As a minimum I would get the essentials to control the boat in high winds with a crew -two reefs in the main and a furling jib/genoa. Single handing is another ball of wax.

Good luck with whatever boat you get but please equip it for the job you want it to do. You owe it to yourself, and your family and friends who may be sailing with you.

Edited by - aeckhart on 10/04/2005 20:24:25

sterngucker
Navigator

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USA
169 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2005 : 20:31:10

My 250 WB mainsail came stock with two reefs. My 2 cents.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2005 : 07:28:11

Double reefs have been stock on 250 mains'ls since around '97 model though the rigging has been left up to the owner.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2005 : 17:09:20

Alrighty then-my statement still stands. You need to equip for your expected sailing conditions if you wnat to be safe.

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