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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Adjustable Genoa Cars

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Steve Raffel
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262 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/25/2005 : 17:57:59

I thinking about the problem of how to overcome the limitations of the placement of the genoa cars, I was wondering whether the Garhauer adjustable car system might work. My concern is that there is too little room in the from for the system to be installed and still allow the cars to be in the proper position. I usually have the cars in the 2nd or 3rd hole.

Steve Raffel
C 250 WK #408

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2005 : 19:17:13

forgive the ignorance, but what problem?

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Bubba
Admiral

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542 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2005 : 21:09:32

I can't speak for Steve, but I've had issues with moving my cars forward to close the leech on my 110 jib. The sheets start running around the shrouds or rubbing the lifelines. When partially furling the jib and moving the cars way forward to compensate, the sheets have to be pulled out of the cars, re-routed inside the shrouds and back through the cars. This can be lots of fun when the wind and seas are up.

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2005 : 09:59:51

Can you (all) post a pic of your genoa cars so we can compare. I'll take pics of mine this weekend after I pull the tarps off JD (Katrina is past us with no ill effects thank goodness.)

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Bubba
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542 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2005 : 21:51:47

Were you looking for pictures of [url="http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davendeb/misc/car.jpg"]the car (click here)[/url]
or
the [url="http://mywebpages.comcast.net/davendeb/misc/genoa_track.jpg"]genoa track (click here)[/url] ?

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2005 : 22:25:30

Ah! Now I see your problem.

Our hull # is 841 (C250WB) and the cars run parallel to the pop top directly astern of the shrouds. So far, no matter how tight and close hauled our jib, we have not had an issue like the one you describe. I'll take a pic in the morning (though the mast is down so the shrouds are lazy.)

When we have had the jib furled in there was no problem either, but we had the cars positioned so that the jib sheet angle from the car to the clew followed the centrally stitched strengthener in the sail so they looked ok.

We run the sheets outside of the shrouds and presumed that was normal.

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mday
Navigator

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197 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2005 : 01:53:14

Bubba,

Your jibsheet location looks unusual to me ... especially for a 110, which is what I have. I've always had my sheets inside the shrouds and stanchions. Most of the time sailing with a full jib, the cars sit back about where the hatch starts. If I need to roll in the jib, the cars can be moved forward ..... most times I don't bother because it's blowing hard enough that fine sail trim isn't a big issue. Going downwind or on a broad reach, I've had plenty of room to let the jib out and not get the sheets tangled in the shrouds or lifelines.

Steve,

Looks like your post went off on a tangent, eh?
What are the "limitations" you're trying to overcome? Are you trying to get finer adjustments than the holes in the standard tracks?

Max

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2005 : 10:12:44

The jib sheeting issue has been an interminable one on the 250. The problem exist when using a 135 headsail and is caused by the inward mounted track (inside the shrouds) as opposed to a more conventional track (outside the shrouds).

Reminding one more time, the 250 was designed as a water ballast boat with a 110 and an internal track fit the design very well. When the 250 wing keel model was added, the internal track exposed a problem for the adaptation to a larger headsail. An internal track wont allow both forward and aft car settings withot rerouting the sheets around the shrouds.

One fix that seems to work is to run dual sheets, one inside and one out. Sure, doing so means two more lines cluttering... but it has been reported to work fairly well.

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Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2005 : 11:42:55

I have a wing keel with a 110. Arlyn's comments about the problem existing with the 135 seem to also apply to the 110. I have the jib sheets inside the stanchions and the shourds. My cars are in the 3rd hole from the bow. I have tried running the sheets outside the shourds but they always seem to press on them. When sailing on a reach or running my setup works OK. But when close hauled the jib is not properly trimmed. My thought is that if the cars were easily adjustable as with the Garhauer rig, it would solve the problem. I am concerned that the amount of hardware in their setup might not allow the cars to go far enough forward.

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welshoff
Captain

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253 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2005 : 14:07:31

I have a wing with the 135 genoa and run the jib sheets outside the shrouds and inside the life line stantions. The only issue I ever have had is when poling out the genoa on a run - the jib sheets hit the life lines. However, not much force on the jib sheets at this point of sail, so I don't have much concern at this point.

With the above set up I can run closed hauled and other points of sail with furled jib or full genoa and have no issues. The tracks in the photo are located same place on my boat?

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 08/28/2005 : 15:35:33

Just took this pic of the Jib Track on the Port side.
This is a C250WB 2005.
As you can see, the track is parallel to the cabin pop top and directly astern of the shrouds. (Forgive the color, but the boat is still under a Tarp. I'm installing a water pump.)

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Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2005 : 15:55:20

Thanks for your excellent picture. It is clear that the track has been moved out by Catalina. That should solve the problem for you. I guess I need to investigate whether it is possible for me to move mine out or if the adjustable cars would be a better solution.

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welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2005 : 18:11:58

My tracks are farther inboard, about 4 inches? They must have change this in 2005. They also added a cleat midship (aft of the track). Is this a factory installed cleat?

A cleat would come in handy here for a fender and spring line!

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 08/28/2005 : 20:01:26

Yes it is factory installed, that cleat is for the CDI furler (halyard/sheet).

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Bubba
Admiral

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542 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2005 : 20:08:25

Wil,
That cleat is for the furling line for a roller-furling jib. It's not heavy enough for a spring line.

You might consider a cleat that slides on the jib track, like [url="http://www.boatus-store.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=20002&langId=-1&catalogId=20002&productId=71998"] this one[/url]. I use one for a spring line and it doesn't get in the way of the jib leads.

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johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2005 : 03:06:33

Usually I sail in San Francisco bay using a 110 jib so I have everything setup for these conditions...jib sheets and cars.

But this year I was sailing in the Georgia Straight,BC where the winds were only from 5 to 18 knots with very short gusts to about 22 knots and so I used a 155% jib all the time. Only once did I have to reduce the jib to about 130% or so when I used the auto pilot.
I had to reroute the jib sheets and be inventive.

In this picture I ran the sheets outside the shroud lines and around the stanchion and up to the winch.

and this photo I used a block and an adjustable 3" to 12" long line around the stanchion

and here is a better picture angle

Spent 28 days on the water with my 15 year old Grandson and we both had a wonderfull time and the boat performed very well.

On the charts we traveled about 320 nautical miles, but my Grandson notice the meter when we got back, it read 405 nautical miles.
Well we did alot of time with the sails up and tacking and he did all the course navigation......and corrections and I'll tell ya...he knows his math now.......and one of his many new sayings ......just a minute Grandpa while I double check ......GOD LOVE UM brings tears to my eyes.

I'm not sure if I will add T-track or maybe just add blocks to the stanchions for the jib sheets.

paulj C250WK #719

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welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2005 : 11:31:20

I will look into a mid ship cleat for the track or adding an additionl cleat mid ship? My boat is set up with a cam cleat for the furling line, hence the question on the cleat.

Nice pictures - Nice scenery Very creative way to run your lines with the larger genoa. Any more info/pictures on your trip in BC. Where did you put in and how far North did you go? This is on my list of places to cruise next year (going to the San Juans this year).

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Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2005 : 14:12:28

Britinusa, when you say you run your sheets outside the shrouds, are you also running them under the life lines or inside the stanshion?

Thanks.

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2005 : 16:50:37

Paul, judging from your picture and the placment of my track, it appears that they left the winch end of the track in the same place and just moved the forward end out even with the chain-plates. Could you measure the distance from the inside the toe rail to the track at both the aft and forward end an post it? I'm curious to know if my assumption is correct before I consider moving it. If correct I would only have to fill one hole on each side if I moved it.

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johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2005 : 15:24:29

Will take some measurements next couple days
paulj
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frog0911
 Paul, judging from your picture and the placment of my track, it appears that they left the winch end of the track in the same place and just moved the forward end out even with the chain-plates. Could you measure the distance from the inside the toe rail to the track at both the aft and forward end an post it? I'm curious to know if my assumption is correct before I consider moving it. If correct I would only have to fill one hole on each side if I moved it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 09/06/2005 : 20:46:13

Jerry, I measured the track position.
Aft end is 6" from toe rail and Fwd end if 5" from toe rail (to center of track)

You mention only need to fill one hole!!! our track has screws through the deck to the cabin about every 4" or so. It would be a major fix to move the track.

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frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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1349 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2005 : 22:04:26

Thanks, and yes I forgot about the other screws. This maynot be worth the effort.

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Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2005 : 14:52:45

Paul, how do you run your jib sheets? Are they inside the shrouds, outside the shrouds, over the life lines or under the lifelines?

Thanks.

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2005 : 16:24:01

I run mine outside the shrouds and over top of the lifelines.

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Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2005 : 21:25:38

I found I can point 5 degrees higher if I sheet inside the shrouds. But for anything other than close hauled, that leaves me with the jib leech curled back to windward. So, I've been running the jib sheets outside the shrouds and stanchion and under the lifeline. The sheets rub the lifeline when close hauled that way.

I plan to try Arlyn's [url="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/extenders.html"]twings [/url]system. I toyed with it at the marina and it looks like I could get some good sheeting angles. If it's successful, I'll report back with pictures.

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johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2005 : 00:05:10

Steve,
I just took these pictures sailing with my 155% gen in a very lite wind.

Picture 1

picture 2

picture 3

This is as close as I can get pointing up with 155.
In a stronger wind I would like to try and get the 155 inside of the safety rails.

In San Francisco, my 100 is inside of shroud lines while pointing up.
When in SF I always run my jib sheets inside the shrouds.

I usually sail alone but if I had a crew I would try more combinations.

paulj C250wk #719

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