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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

"I don't know about you, but I'm going swimming.."

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/10/2006 : 01:28:26

So, Rita & I took our new (to us) 250 out for a little spin today. We'd planned on a couple of hours to rig and launch since it was our first time. We'd done a practice rigging at home, so we'd know what to expect, but there was no real way to practice the launch sequence. We use a launch strap and third wheel, something I'd never done before, and had only read about (extensively) in this forum. It didn't seem so hard in principal, but the reality was somewhat different. Simply drop the trailer, attach the launch strap, and back down the ramp, right? Right... We did that, managed to get just enough of an angle to the trailer that it ran off the ramp at about the same spot the boat started to float. Well, no problem, just pull the whole thing back up the ramp a bit, get a bit more steam going on the way down, and stand on the brakes once the trailer's submerged, and the boat will pop off, no problem, right? Ummm...no, the boat comes half way off the trailer, and hangs up on the last set of pads. Well, if I just pull the trailer out from underneath it, it'll be ok, right? Ummm...no, the trailer basically pops a wheely, and now the boat is stuck, half way between two worlds, the sea and the land, and no way to get on the boat, except to swim out to the swim ladder. If I back down, nothing happens, if I go forward, it just gets worse (and it did). What to do? I decided to burn some karma, and ask for help from some folks coming back from water skiing. They gave me a half hearted couple of tugs on my two stern cleats, but were afraid to damage their own boat. I thanked them for the attempt, and started thinking about kedging the boat off with an anchor floated out on a PFD. Another set of folks came down the ramp next to us, and offered to stand all three of their guys on the trailer tongue and try to un-wheely the trailer, but with a couple of tons of boat this didn't seem practical. The older guy who owned the boat then offered to try to pull us off with it, and I whole-heartedly accepted. We rigged up the lines to my stern cleats again, got him lined up to pull straight, and a couple of good tugs later, we were free, and the boat was no longer stuck between worlds, it was in the water where is was supposed to be. Woohoo! A number of other folks has stepped up to help as well, and I'm very thankful for that. A few more minutes to reconnect the trailer to the truck and drag it into the parking lot, and we were off. We motored out into the lake, raised the sails and were quickly doing almost hull speed on the main and the 110% jib. I spent the next couple of hours torn between enjoying the boat (a kick in the pants), and worrying about how I was going to get it back out of the water.

Having learned from my mistakes earlier, I made sure when I backed down the trailer, that the pads were completely submerged before I attempted to pull the boat onto it. Doing this, it was pretty easy to pull the boat out of the water. It took us about 2-1/2 hours from pulling in to the dock, to pulling out of the parking lot, which I figure isn't bad for only a first attempt at pulling the boat out. Especially since it took us nearly 4 to get in the water, but more than one of those were simply being stuck.

I never did get to go swimming, at least not like I'd intended to, but I did get to spend a fair amount of time swimming back and forth from the ramp to the swim ladder and back, something I'd just as soon not have to do again.

I'm sure next time will be better.

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Edited by - delliottg on 09/10/2006 01:37:39

britinusa
Web Editor

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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 07:57:25

David, I hope the peanut gallery enjoyed the event!

I take it that the ramp was pretty shallow, hence your choice of launching with the 5th wheel and tow rope method. If the ramp is that shallow, and if the engine reaches the water, you could use it to pull yourself off the trailer, it might even encourage the trailer to head to deeper water if the tow line is slack.
Glad you got out on the boat successfully.
Our experience of retreiving in about 2-2&1/2 hours is about right and we have done it over 20 times now.

Paul.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 09:12:11

Paul,
Thanks for the encouragement, I've read most if not all of your posts with great interest since you seemed to be documenting the new owner experience pretty well.

The peanut gallery was pretty amused, we had a bit of a crowd gathered to watch the spectacle, and more than a few offered to help. One of them offered to go home & get his jet ski to pull us off. I didn't feel like a phyics lesson right then, but politely thanked him for the offer.

We tried to pull her off with the engine, to no avail. I think that the trailer tires were pretty well synched up to the gaps in the ramp cross ties, and with all of the weight of the boat on the rear of the trailer, I basically had chocks under my tires. When I tried to jerk the trailer out from underneath the boat, all I did was make it worse by instead putting even more weight on the back of the trailer by pulling the boat further out of the water. I did well in physics in college, but apparently managed to lose that knowledge yesterday. Perhaps I should have given that lesson to my jet skier volunteer...

I guess it was a lesson in humility, and demonstrated how your boat name can insinuate itself into your life. Lepak is a Malaysian word that roughly translates to "hanging out", or "taking it easy", and we had to seriously hang out while waiting to burn that karmic energy of getting a tow from a helpful stranger. Fortunately it was a grey day, and the ramp wasn't very busy, so we really weren't in anyone's way. Besides, we were keeping them all amused...

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 09:36:21

Another place that your boat can get hung up during launch or recover is the wing of you keel hanging on the last pad support. If the boat drifts to either side while coming off or on the trailer, the wing can hang up on the last pad support. One of the ill effects of that is the angle iron is only about 1/4" thick on the edge which can cut into your lead keel if you hit it hard enough. I took a 2" diameter piece of PVC pipe a couple feet long and split it end to end using a table saw. Then pried it open and feed it around the angle iron on each side. This covers the sharp edge on that support so not to cut into the wing when or if I hit it.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 10:10:01

Tom,
That's a good idea, there are already a couple of nicks in the wing on the starboard side where the PO had had exactly that happen. I was thinking along the lines of big pieces of quarter round I could make on the lathe & bolt to the pad uprights, but the PVC idea seems much easier and I don't have to drill any holes into my trailer.

Thanks!

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 10:26:45

Been there. Done that. With my C22. Strap retrievals are always an adventure for us and great entertainment for the crowds that assemble at the ramp! We are in the process of buying a C250WK so I am reading this with interest. Does anyone have a set of instructions and diagrams for building that front fifth wheel? I see them but have found no commercial products or good instructions on how to fabricate. For the C22 we use the jack/wheel but it will not be adequate for a 250. In fact it really is sketchy for the C22.

Nice tip about the PVC on the back stands. I'll use that. Randy

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 10:51:47

Randy,
Nothing like entertaining the crowd while trying to keep your cool about it. Fortunately nothing was damaged except our pride, and the license plate took a beating, but it'll bend out, and will be replaced shortly with a WA plate anyway.

Our fifth wheel is a pretty simple arrangement the PO had fabricated out of square stock steel. The wheel is attached to a piece of square stock that is a sliding fit to the piece attached to the trailer. While it could use a bit of greasing, it simply slides up and down on the inner square tube, and you use the same through pin to lock it up or down as needed. I'll take some pictures of it this afternoon and post them for you.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 11:17:27

David, thanks. I'll look forward to seeing the photos. By the way, at least for our C22 the trailer can be "steered" as it goes into the water by tugging one way or the other on the strap. That way you can keep it on the actual paved ramp. Learned that the hard way.... I suppose a fixed fifth wheel would also help the trailer go in straight. I also read on this site about a person who attached the strap to the front tow hook on his truck. That allows him to better see the lauch/retrieval and have some control over the trailer by steering the truck. Congratulations on you new boat. We live in Eugene, Oregon. You got your boat in Bend and we'll need to travel 2,000 miles to get ours. I hate you.

Edited by - on

Tony Partain
1st Mate

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USA
93 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 12:19:26

David sorry to hear about your first launch problems. I remember the first sail on my first boat, new to sailing and in my need for speed I bought a Hobie Miracle 20! Let see new sailor fast boat with way too much canvas, new sailor on boat by himself. Yes I got wet and then I got an education on righting a cat. Luckily the harbor master was aware of my inexperience and was keeping an eye on me. He came to the rescue and I put the boat away until I could get an experienced Hobie sailor on board.

Any way I hope that you are having a good time with the boat. It was a pleasure to meet you and Rita. I know that Trading Time got a good home.

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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1764 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 12:39:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 Does anyone have a set of instructions and diagrams for building that front fifth wheel? I see them but have found no commercial products or good instructions on how to fabricate. - Randy<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Randy,

Here is what I plan to do WIGATI ("when I get around to it"

).

I can't remember where to get this hardware. I shamelessly stole the photos from a post last spring ... maybe the C-250 owner will see this thread and direct us to that post ... I think it was in April of '06, but I can't find it ... at the moment, this Forum is soooooo slow, I've lost my patience with looking

.

Anyway, take a look ... the photos say it all ... 'hope this helps.

Edit: I didn't find the thread, but I DID find out who sells the mod ... Trail-Rite ... here is a link: [url="http://www.trailrite.com/prod05.htm"]Flip-Mount Spare Tire Carrier[/url]

Edited by - Buzz Maring on 09/10/2006 14:17:01

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 13:10:22

I had the exact thing in the pictures with the lawn (not the first picture) fabricated at a local machine shop for about $300 if I recall correctly. That did not include the cost of the spindle, wheel and tire.

If you want, I can hook you up with the shop, and they can make you one, or I can make some measurements and photos...

I was supposed to photograph it earlier this year I just remembered, but my back injury interfered with that. I am OK now however, will have to take those pictures anyway. They are just like ones in your post however.

I too put PVC around then rear trailer supports to make them less dangerous for the keel.

I learned that I need to find a good way to ensure there is enough water depth before I start the launch process. Probably a rope with a weight. In both St. Helens, OR and Everett, WA we had zero trouble with the whole process, it took about 15 minutes to do the whole thing from the time I started backing down the ramp with the trailer still hooked to the hitch to the time the boat was in the water. This was at high tide.

But at both places at low tide, there was trouble. The Everett ramp just flattened out after sloping down for a while. It flattened such that the boat was not floating at all. Solution, remove the boat and wait for high tide.

In St. Helens, I went to put the boat back in the water at mid to low tide. I got the boat in the water, but the wheels on one side went off th ramp, and the trailer tipped at about a 30 degree angle. I reversed and pulled the trailer back on the ramp. The boat was floating, and as far as I know (have not seen the bottom of the boat since) nothing was damaged.

But even then, the process was very quick.

So I think the trick is, you must have enough water. If you don't, bag it and find another ramp, or wait for higher tide (if you have tide). If it is a lake, well, find a crane...

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 13:36:11

My very first launch went like clock-work except with the trailer in the water and the bow strap released the boat still would not motor out even though the hull was afloat. It took me ten minutes to discover that the dealer had tied a line from the trailer to the starboard jib sheet winch which was on the opposite side from the dock. It was found when another boater was coming in and offered to give Chick-a-pea a tug off the trailer.

Edited by - Ben - FL on 09/10/2006 13:37:18

britinusa
Web Editor

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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 13:36:22

If the two trailer tubes were round, then you wouldn't have to heave on the wheel to remove, rotate, replace, just remove the pin, rotate, replace the pin.
Either way, it's a great idea.

I thought those trailer pics were from Tom (I recognize the psuedo pelican poop.)

Paul.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2006 : 22:17:55

Kevin, my worst case lauch was this spring when I used 60' of nylon tow strap to launch my C22. That trailer was way the heck out there! Strap launches are the norm here. No lifts available.

Buzz, thanks for the link!

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2006 : 00:54:53

Randy,
Here's a couple of pictures from each side of the trailer showing the launch wheel and attachment brackets, etc:

Hope this helps.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 09/11/2006 : 14:08:43

David, nice setup. Somene did some good thinking in that design. I will have to see how much room I have to work with once I add the attachment for the equalizer hitch. I also have a call in to Trail-rite to check on the price of their unit. Randy

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2006 : 14:56:35

David, what is the hitch ball size for the trailer? I order the Equalizer from rvwholesalers.com ($399 with free shipping!) but didn't know the hitch ball size. Thanks Randy

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2006 : 15:11:04

Randy,
We've got a two inch ball on the receiver, but I don't know if that's standard or not. Some of the other guys probably know better.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 09/11/2006 : 15:43:07

Yikes!! Just talked to Trailrite and that flip down wheel unit they have sells for $526 without the wheel and tire!!

Back to the drawing board.

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2006 : 18:14:25

I was going to tell you they were expensive

, I found that site and inquired about it as well a couple years ago. It was their design that I got the idea to build my own. I'm still looking for ways to improve. I've thought about mounting a large caster wheel on the tongue. It would have to be tall enough so you could lower the jack all the way down and have room to fold it, yet not so tall to hit the road while the trailer is hitched to the truck.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2006 : 18:44:55

Tom, if you find another way to do a wheel I'll buy your old one.

Randy

Edited by - on

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