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Single Line Reefing Smooth as glass - Frog 0911

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/29/2006 : 17:44:19

Jerry,
I'm doing a little research on adding a second set of reef points. Me having a TR, the one reef point just brings me down to standard rig height. There are times when I need more, like on the Cumberland Island trip!

I tried to add on to your topic below but its LOCKED.

So here's my questions;
On the foot of your sail you have a couple grommets, looks as if the end of the reef line goes through and ties around the boom. Did you add them or did the come on your sail? And are they in line (vertical) with the reefing points above them?

Is your block arrangement on the reefing points still working good for you?

What did you ever do about your second reef points, how did you end up running your lines.

[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=7795&whichpage=2&SearchTerms=reefing"]Repaired Link[/url]

1997 250 TR WK (sold)
1984 O'Day 28 (sold)
1979 SISU 22
Bath, NC.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 05/02/2006 18:42:26

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2006 : 00:02:48

Tom, the foot grouments were on the sail when I got the boat. They are about two to three inches behind the straight vertical. I think this is what allows the the reef and still maintain tension on the foot since the pull is from the boom rear end. As for the block arrangement, it is still better then sliced bread. Almost effortless when putting in and taking out on any point of sail.
I have not installed a second reefing line yet since I am toying with the idea of adding hooks to the orginial foward of the aft block and aft of the forward block. This will allow for the second reef to be put in just by dropping the sail to the haylard mark, loosing the reefing line, putting the hooks into the upper reef points and then retensioning the reefing line. I have not tried it yet, but will shortly to see how it works. If I don't like it, I will add blocks to the starboard side of the boom, another mastblock and a single clutch so it too dead ends in the cockpit. I have not needed the second reef yet, since I have been able to keep the boat heel under 20 degrees with the single reefed main and the furler rolled up to 100% in winds up to 20 knots.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2006 : 21:15:46

Made an appointment for next week to have the the second reef set put in. Plan to have them put the grommets on the foot as well. Need to get it done before the March winds get here.

Edited by - on

frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2006 : 08:18:46

For my single line second reefing -I used two cheek blocks on the boom, two small blocks with rings at the reef points, two padeyes on the boom, a block at the mast base, ran the line thru a deck organizer and thru a rope clutch. I also use a mast gate so that the slugs drop all the way down. With this arrangement I can reef and unreef on the fly. The small blocks at the reef points greatly reduce the friction I couldn't overcome by just passing the line thru the reef points. Hope the picture helps.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2006 : 19:55:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by frog0911
 I have not installed a second reefing line yet since I am toying with the idea of adding hooks to the orginial forward of the aft block and aft of the forward block. This will allow for the second reef to be put in just by dropping the sail to the halyard mark, loosing the reefing line, putting the hooks into the upper reef points and then retensioning the reefing line. I have not tried it yet, but will shortly to see how it works. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Jerry
Have you tried the hook/block idea yet? I've been thinking of doing it as well. Here's the plan.

Buy two [url="http://images.westmarine.com/full/122911_f.jpg"]Reef Hooks[/url] install a small blocks in each eye of the hooks. Run the original single line reefing system as you and frank have, except with the hooks you would be able to use it for;
Cunningham or,
Flatten Reef or,
First Reef point or,
Second Reef point
All with the single line set up.

I'm thinking on storing the hooks on the Cunningham cringle and flatten reef cringle when no reef is necessary. Mark the main halyard and lower the main to the marks and put the hooks in whichever reef is needed.

Other uses;
Take the hook out of the flatten reef and use the setup for the Cunningham or take the hook out the Cunningham and use the setup for the flatten reef. This all sounds simple, my one concern is will the hooks stay in the cringles. I'm thinking it would.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 05/01/2006 19:57:00

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2006 : 08:55:16

Tom, when you said reef hooks I initally said no because of the time required to work it around the cringle, but then I look at the hook picture you provided and that hook works fine. That is what I have on mine, but I did not attach them to the blocks just put them on the line in front of the blocks since I have not use the second reef once since I got the boat. I can understand you requiring the second reef with your tall rig and the setup you discribe should work fine. The way I have chosen to use the hooks works fine for my standard rig. I have tried it out a few times just to make sure it functioned the way I intended. I would go for it and make adjustments if I felt it was required. The only thing that maybe a problem is usung it for the cunningham which is a luff pull only. The aft hook would have to just dangle for the single line system. If you put the aft hook in any cringle above the boom it would pull the sail down along the leach. I don't think it dangling along side the boom would be a problem. I will have to take some pictures so you can see how it works.
Been busy this past week putting a new bottom on PennyII, finishing up some electrical work and giving Her a good coat of wax. The Mug Race is this weekend so She has to sail good and look good. Right now Saturday is predicted to have a 30% chance of rain and 90 degrees. If the winds don't come up early it will be a long hot day. We have four members of the fleet in the race, three in Catalina 25/250's and one crewing on a O'day 27. All we need is two more Catalina 25's from anywhere to have our own class.

Edited by - on

mday
Navigator

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197 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2006 : 12:37:30

Jerry,

I tried putting a reef hook on the boom gooseneck as was described a while ago in this forum. I found it VERY difficult to get the grommet on the hook at the first reef point. I sure isn't something you'd have time to fool around with when things are getting testy out on the water. So I've just been struggling through using the standard jiffy reefing system. From your "smooth as glass" installation, though, I've been thinking that maybe a loop of line through the reef point grommet would slip right on the hook. I felt a hook would be simple and have less chance of getting tangled up than all the lines with a jiffy reefing system. Maybe I should just install the "smooth as glass" system and be done with it!

Anyway, please do post pictures of the hook arrangement you're experimenting with for the 2nd reef.

Anyone added lines through the small grommets to tie up the loose sail when reefed?

Max

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2006 : 12:54:44

Max, I have gasket lines to tie up the reefed sail but only use them when expecting a several hour passage under reef. IMHO, they would not/should not be used on a boat with lines led aft. First, because they then require going onto the cabin top to tie (at least some) and second, they can cause damage to the sail if the reef lines are cast off or for some reason accidentally release. I think it is prudent not to use them with a clutch, cam or clam cleat... I've horn cleats for the reefing lines.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2006 : 18:50:08

Jerry did you have to move your reef line to the port side? (the line running back to the cockpit)

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2006 : 21:35:07

Tom, the reef line to the cockpit runs on the port side to a clutch.

The line on the forward block is the reefing line.

Clutch assembly, left most clutch is the reef clutch

Edited by - on

s3tbuell
1st Mate

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47 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2006 : 09:43:32

OK last night I setup the original single line reef system. I routed the line a little different I think but it works great. What troubles are other people having?

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jking
Navigator

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110 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2006 : 10:05:12

How about this:

1. Use a Cunningham hook at the gooseneck-could work for either 1st or 2nd reef tack.

2. Attach the in-boom reef line to the 1st reef point clew to be snugged down after reefing the tack.

3. Attach the in-boom topping lift to the 2nd reef clew.

4. Rig a new topping lift, as has been described in prior posts.

The only major drawback that I see is having to go to the mast to reef the tack.

John

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2006 : 10:21:06

Doyle,

The Catalina settup employes a port mast mounted small turning block to turn the reef line exiting the bottom of the boom up to the reef tack. That block is a gotcha for a few reasons.
<ol type="1"><li>it is an extra block that most jiffy reefing systems don't have</li><li>it makes a near 180 degree turn, which always means a good bit of drag</li><li>it is relatively small, which also means drag</li><li>it leads the line off the boom at an angle where the line can yet chaff on the boom </li></ol id="1">
That block adds X amount of drag to the reefing line. The two other large drag locations are the tack and clew cringles, lets call that drag Y and label all other drag Z realizing that the two big areas are x and y. So, drag = x + y + z and the total is too much. Jerry has eliminated most of the drag of Y by using blocks at the cringles rather than dragging the line through the cringles so his drag = x + z, far less than the three. Others have eliminated x by going double line or external lines.

The stock settup has enough drag that a winch is needed to set a reef if the reef line is led aft. Evidently, that became a warranty issue with Catalina with either sail or slug damage when the winch was used and they stopped routing the reefing line to the cockpit around '02-'03. The owner of course can do so, but the liability is his.

Bottom line, a winch can overcome x+y+z drag but at a risk... better to reduce the drag somewhere and not need the winch.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2006 : 20:18:43

Haven't use a winch on a reef yet and during the Mug Race today I put it in and took it out twice while under sail and never missed a beat

Edited by - on

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