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 Yet another through-hull drain question		  New Topic  Reply to Topic
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Volksaholic
1st Mate

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Initially Posted - 04/30/2023 :  12:54:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My C25 has the original "volcano" through hull drain, but the previous owner routed the sink to a 5 gallon container under the port lazarette so it's not draining through the hull anyway. Do you weekend freshwater sailors find value in being able to drain at least some gray water through the hull?

The question I've been kicking around is whether there's value in draining into the lake or if I'm better off hauling all gray water out in a jug. I think the law says I can drain it if it's not toxic or environmentally unfriendly as long as I'm not in the marina (paraphrased and dumbed down, obviously). I'm in the process of cleaning up the hull for bottom paint so I'm at the decision point of whether it's reasonable to modernize it or tear it out and patch the hull. I'm already going to patch the old speed transducer hole and install a new one forward of the keel so I'll have the patching supplies and tools on hand. I'm on the fence with whether to "future proof" and install a modern sea cock now or delete it and add it back in later.
Paul
1981 Catalina 25 TR/FK
Soon to be named either Fiddler's Dream or Fool's Errand depending on what it takes to get her into shape

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts
Response Posted - 04/30/2023 :  17:10:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't believe it's legal to dump any water overboard into any lake. Good chance I'm wrong though. LOL

I'm sure the vast and unpaid resource group on this forum can advise for sure.

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts
Response Posted - 04/30/2023 :  19:11:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I looked into it about 10 years ago, but laws might have changed. At that time, black water was prohibited everywhere except well offshore. Gray water generally was not, although states were permitted to regulate it, and a few did in a few sensitive locations, but most did not. Also, individual marinas are free to prohibit or discourage it. If you wash your boat using a little soap, that's gray water. I don't recall ever seeing that prohibited anywhere, but if you cause a proliferation of suds to float throughout the marina, you'll probably see frowns. If you see a sign saying it's a "No Discharge Area," you should respect it, even though it might only be a rule of the marina, and not enforceable by the government.

When I lived aboard my boat, I almost never used the sink. I washed dishes in a tub provided by the marina for that purpose and bathed in the marina's showers. When away from the marina, I either bathed on deck with a bar of soap and water bucket, or, if the bay water wasn't clean, took "duck baths" using water from jug water. In any event, you can't avoid draining some gray water overboard.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
Edited by - Steve Milby on 04/30/2023 19:20:42
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/30/2023 :  19:36:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Regarding replacing the thru hull, I'd do it while you have all the tools and materials out. Grind off the volcano and install and caulk the new valve. It isn't a huge job, it will only add the cost of the parts, and you can sleep better knowing the old thru hull isn't going to pop out while you're asleep in the vee berth.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 04/30/2023 :  20:23:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

...you can sleep better knowing the old thru hull isn't going to pop out while you're asleep in the vee berth.
Yup--you'd hate to be awakened by water lapping on your ear.

I agree on replacing the thru-hull with a proper one, if not for you to use now, then to be there when you sell the boat one day. When showing the boat, the sink draining into a jug seems somehow lacking... And installing the new thru-hull might be less effort than properly closing the hole.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Volksaholic
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 04/30/2023 :  20:25:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for your input. I'm not finding the info on gray water discharge that I referred to, but as I recall I stumbled around with searches before I found it several months ago. That said, I'm leaning toward deleting the drain and if I decide after a season or two with the boat that it would be beneficial I can always drill a hole for a proper sea cock. I can see rinsing a coffee cup or washing my hands in the sink, but if I did that for a week of staying on the boat I can't imagine accumulating much water in the gray water jug. On boats I've crewed on it seems the sink ends up being the holding place for keys or whatever odds & ends you need to toss below and want to be able to find quickly again.

I went to the boat to get a better picture of what I'm dealing with, because other than identifying the through-hull from the outside and the sink drain to a 5 gallon container in the lazarette I hadn't investigated. I was a little disappointed at 2 things: the previous owner left the ice box drain open to where it would have drained any water directly into the bilge if I'd tossed a bag of ice in there. I found he had installed a plastic ball valve on the through-hull volcano, which opens and closes fine but for the life of me I couldn't unscrew it from the volcano. The disappointing part is that it came up to a T fitting that he had capped off with rubber foot caps that would be used on something like a cane or metal chair leg. That would probably seem like a clever idea to me if I hadn't burned myself with it 30 or so years ago.

I've got a '66 Newport Finn which someone had installed plastic oarlocks on the side tanks, which opened them into the primary flotation for that hull (not to mention... why do you need oarlocks on a one-design racing dinghy? :D ). I recognized the problem and came up with the "clever" solution of using similar chair feet to cap them. A bunch of years later I was out with my 11 y.o. step daughter during early spring winds and we were hiking hard but still washing water over the leeward rails pretty often. I didn't notice how squirrely the boat was starting to handle until we capsized and when we righted it came up swamped. We couldn't get enough speed for the bailers to work so I flagged down a power boat and took a tow in. Upon inspection, the rubber caps had hardened and cracked, presumably due to thermal cycles and age, and we'd pretty well filled the flotation tanks on both sides. The bottom line is they were never intended to last for an extended period in a non-temperature controlled environment where a failure could swamp a boat. Bad idea! I highly recommend against it!
Paul
1981 Catalina 25 TR/FK
Soon to be named either Fiddler's Dream or Fool's Errand depending on what it takes to get her into shape
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts
Response Posted - 04/30/2023 :  20:37:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just because you’re not currently using the through hull doesn’t mean that not a huge risk to your boat. This configuration could fail at any time without notice. I use my head area sink for hand washing and washing out my coffee cup, however I no longer use the galley sink or the ice chest cooler and it’s drain. I plugged the through hull with a wooden plug just to prevent any inadvertent leaks or accidents.
I’d suggest continuing to use your 5 gallon bucket and properly disposing your gray water into a sanitary sewer drain. Many states allow the use of drinking water reservoirs for boating, for example Lake Lanier in Georgia, many California reservoirs, Lake Mead in Nevada and Arizona, and elsewhere. Massachusetts and Connecticut do not allow it, thankfully. Nonetheless, I would not advise dumping gray water overboard, especially if it has detergents, cleaning agents and food particles in it.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts
Response Posted - 05/02/2023 :  12:43:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, I realized that I posted my post just about at the same time that you all made your posts (4/30 @ 20:25 +/-), so we all agreed that it would be best to eliminate the through hull fitting. Managing your sink water seems like a pain in the arse, and I’d argue (like Steve does) that some gray water will go over the side into the lake. If you have a bucket, that lets you choose what to toss overboard versus what should not. My soapy coffee cup, maybe not, however, a sink full of dishes or sludgy water you might think twice.
It’s not a bad situation unless you’re doing a week-long trip.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 05/02/2023 :  13:26:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Most of us don't generate many dirty dishes when cruising, especially if we use paper plates, so, if you wash dishes in a pail, using jug water to wash and rinse, you won't have much gray water, and, if you don't want to dispose of it overboard, you can empty it in the head. If you prepare food that doesn't have to be cooked, like pasta salads with chicken or tuna or ham, or sandwiches, etc., you can minimize the need to wash dishes.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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