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Potomac River Sailing Near DC Plane Collision

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3426 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/30/2025 : 16:11:53

I am very familiar with the flight path along the Potomac River and Natl Reagan Airport where the collision occurred. For the past several years, I have been sailing out of the Quantico Marine Base Marina which is about 25 miles south of the airport along the Potomac River. However, between 2005 and ~ 2020, I sailed out of the James Creek Marina located adjacent to Fort McNair and Washington Channel/Hanes Point. The Anacostia Air Station and Bolling Air Force Base are just south of my marina and also on the DC side of the Potomac River. The airport is directly across on the Virginia side of the Potomac River. The Potomac River is only about 1/2 mile wide adjacent to the airport but as you go south on the Potomac, the river widens significantly to 1-2 miles wide and some sections even wider. The riverbed of the Potomac River adjacent to the airport is mostly mud and if any significant winds or if a storm recent in the area, then the river is very hard to see through it as it can become cloudy, murky brown in color as the riverbed becomes disturbed. The current is affected by the tide as it is affected by the Chesapeake Bay way south - high/low tide is 3� difference and current can be 1-2 mph depending on tide, wind, past rainfall factors. The river depth is as follows: The channel/ buoy markers are closer to the DC side of the river and river depth is mostly between 20�-35� . Outside of the channel, about middle of the river and closer to the airport side, it can be quite shallow, 2�-7� (mostly dependent on low/high tide). Then very close to the airport side of the river, there is sort of river valley there with depths a bit deeper ~ 8� - 12� deep but decreases to practically nothing on the southern tip of the airport. There is an inlet just past the southern part of the airport - That�s where the entrance is to the Washington Sailing Marina (but is located on the Virginia Side). Due to the shallowness of the river near and at the southern tip of the airport, under most conditions except for some boats during high tide, access to the Sailing Marina is following a small channel south hugging the Virginia side and then depths increase after traveling 500+ ft south and that�s where most of the sailboats leave the channel and sail in the river.
The area where this collision occurred is the flight path passing over the DC land on south side of the Anacostia Air Station and believe it is just north of the Bolling Air Force Base. Planes usually approach the airport along the Potomac River way south of the airport. Most planes then utilize the main runway that runs parallel to the river. However, when I am sailing, I watch as some planes head further east to travel north on the DC side of the river and then bank to the NW accessing a smaller runway that sort of runs diagonally across the river in a ~ NW direction.
I am keenly aware of each plane that is going to access that diagonal runway and will be crossing the river in NW direction because if the winds and tide favorable, I either take tacks zigzagging across the river orhead south adjacent to the airport where that river valley is but when I am approaching that area where the planes access the diagonal runway, I make sure that I am not close to the airport side right where the planes access that runway. I don�t think the planes would actually be that low to hit my mast but I can tell you that they are pretty low just before they land on that runway�low enough that I get concerned if there would at least be any turbulence that would mess with me. I don�t know if I actually have seen passengers waving to me but can tell you it is close enough that I @void that area if I see a plane heading to the east side of the river meaning they are then going to bank and access that shorter diagonal runway.

I have mentioned in some other postings that the DC area has a lot of boat/ air traffic. Mostly, it makes it interesting but also noisy at times. There are the sightseeing boats, sailboats, motorboats, airplanes, DC patrol boats, Coast Guard boats, fire and rescue, all sorts of helicopters. The military helicopters generally hug the DC coastline and fly fairly low. The planes that access that diagonal runway�.on the TV news I believe I heard the newscasters state that when the planes bank on the DC side to lineup to go across the Potomac, they are at approximately 150�-200� height So, you can imagine that with helicopters hugging the DC side of the river, that this was an accident waiting to happen.

What was of interest to me that I heard on the TV news was an interview with a retired pilot that described that at night there are a lot of lights in the sky and on the DC side of the river and so he was explaining that for a helicopter pilot it can be very hard to interpret the stationary lights from perhaps lights from the approaching plane. Even though there is safety equipment to help avoid collisions, it obviously is not full proof . Also, the low flying helicopters and a low diagonal approach by a plane means visual or safety equipment would be oftentimes called into action versus a rare instance. That should be addressed.

It would seem to me that it should be mandatory for the helicopters to detour further east before approaching that diagonal runway approach, then after passing that area (perhaps a 200 foot wide area), then resume hugging the DC River side.

By the way, the Blackhawk helicopter was on a standard training flight. The helicopter flight originated from Fort Belvoir which is south along the Potomac River on the Virginia side (south of the Wilson Bridge).

Edited by - OLarryR on 01/30/2025 16:24:17

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9068 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2025 : 19:58:49

Just reported: Another commercial flight one day earlier was forced to abort a landing and go around because of another helicopter approaching his path. Ouch.

Edit: I just heard the pilot-tower transmissions during that event. Sounded like both were familiar with the situation, which is not a good sign.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/04/2025 22:44:59

Voyager
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USA
5333 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2025 : 07:18:22

Larry, I thought about you during the coverage, as I�ve stopped at your old marina once or twice to eat my lunch when I used to fly in/out of DCA to see a customer. One of the news crews that was trying to get as close as possible to the site appeared to be shooting from there, as I saw the slips and a few boats when they got a shot of the river.
I recalled that awhile back, you moved to another marina downriver to a less hectic area.
It was a tragedy, but apparently not a huge surprise to those familiar with the situation. Having been a passenger on puddle-jumpers frequently back then, I guess I should have realized the risks. The amazing part is the work and dedication of the air traffic controllers who regularly prevent disaster. They are every business flyer�s unsung heroes.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3426 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2025 : 22:37:38

Those air traffic controllers certainly have a stressful job and as reported, they oftentimes are short handed even if they may may meet the bare minimum required.

Listening to the news reports, another thing that I never really thought about was that the commercial planes that use that diagonal runway are mostly shorter, lower passenger capacity planes, since that runway is shorter. That runway is also mostly used for planes landing versus taking off. So far, I am aware of two accidents involving the Natl Reagan - The one that just happened and one that occurred many years ago when a plane was landing/approaching the main runway from the North and was a bit too low clipping a Virginia/DC bridge. This plane also landed in the Potomac. I believe there were survivors.

If landing at Natl Reagan and on the diagonal runway, the sailboats and motor boats that you may see in a small marina on the DC side of the Potomac River would mostly be from the Bolling Air Force Base - They have a small marina located directly on the river. It probably would be visible out of the plane's left side windows. I am not sure if there are any planes that take off from this base, maybe some helicopters. I believe it is mostly base housing....but I may be wrong about what actually lands and takes off from this base.

Out of the right side windows, probably would see the Washington channel (adjacent to the Potomac River), the Anacostia River (that joins into the Wash Channel and the Potomac River). The James Creek Marina (90% motorboats, 10% sailboats) would probably also be visible - It is adjacent to Fort McNair which is on the Washington Channel. Opposite the James Creek Marina is the Anacostia Air Station which is just north of the Bolling AFB. I had a boat slip at James Creek for many years until I moved my boat to a slip at the Quantico Marine Base Marina.

From the above, the takeaway is that there are quite a number of military organizations surrounding this area....and some I did not mention also very close are Naval Research Lab (NRL) on the river south of Bolling AFB, Fort Myers adjacent to Arlington Cemetary, Fort Belvoir just south of the Wilson Bridge (they also have a marina).

Oh! Almost forgot another facility just a bit up the Anacostia River - The Washington Navy Yard. Eons ago, they primarily made cannons. That ended many years ago. The base now houses a number of federal organizations including Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA).

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/06/2025 08:45:44

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9068 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2025 : 16:03:46

Right across the river from National, as identified on Google Maps, is Joint Base Anacostia Bolling, with the Marine One hangar (presumably for the presidential helicopters) and what appears to be a multi-craft landing area within a formidable security enclosure toward the north end of the base. Marine Ones are not, of course, Black Hawks.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3426 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2025 : 23:18:09

I have been on the Bolling Base a few times. Twice, we held an annual office afternoon party there. I had contemplated inquiring on docking my sailboat at their small marina....perhaps 30+ slips. The annual docking fees are less expensive than the private marinas in the area but there were some drawbacks - Small marina, opens directly onto the Potomac but right into the channel and hard to see the boat traffic until you are in it. Also....when you work for the Govt, there are always some Base rules to follow ...maybe not all the bad but at the time, was not looking forward to following more rules.

Okay....since we are a bit light on postings right now on the Forum, let me ramble on with addl history and what also led to why I did eventually move my sailboat to a Base - The Quantico Marine Base Marina.....Also, any info you may have read in the news about the Coast Guard Head removed from the Bolling Base....well, you may wonder why the CG is there or how that came about?

Adjacent to the James Creek Marina was a large, few stories high, Coast Guard Hqtrs Bldg. Yet another Govt organization!! But many years ago, way before Covid, the Coast Guard Hqtrs was vacating that building and moving to the Bolling Base. They had shuttle buses that would pickup personnel during morning rush hour from the nearby DC Metro (subway) station (~ 1 1/2 miles away) and drop them off at the Hqtrs Bldg. Shuttle buses would do the reverse run at close of business each day. The building was eventually vacated and the shuttle bus runs ended.....until an unlikely event occurred and the old Coast Guard Bldg was re-opened and shuttle buses resumed!
At the Washington Navy Yard, in one of our NAVSEA Bldgs, a computer contractor that was having some mental issues (hearing voices, etc) came to work and opened fire. I believe we had approximately 11 casualties that day. During the weeks that followed, all that worked in that NAVSEA Bldg were temporarily relocated into other NAVSEA bldgs and elsewhere in DC facilities off the Base. Due to the fatalities nd the trauma to the workforce, it was decided that the NAVSEA Bldg would be closed for the forceable future. Eventually, bldg contractors were hired, entrances and some of internal spaces redesigned and construction began. As these plans were being worked on, it was decided that since the Coast Guard Bldg ( about 10-15 minutes drive ) was to be torn down/rebuilt but work had not commenced, all or most of the NAVSEA personnel that were in Bldg 197 would be relocated to the old Coast Guard Bldg....and the shuttle buses would be resurrected back and forth to the Metro station as well as addl shuttle buses throughout the day shuttling personnel to/from the the Washington Navy Yard (to conduct business/attend mtgs with personnel in the other NAVSEA Bldgs).

Believe this went on for well over a year maybe 2 years. Then most personnel were moved back to the NAVSEA Bldg after modifications were completed. Some were too traumatized to move back into the Bldg - Not sure of the details but believe some were transferred to other departments located in other buildings and...some may have just decided to leave NAVSEA altogether.

The Coast Guard Bldg was again closed...and for good! The building was worked on for a long time - the concrete was completely removed/demolished, only the superstructure remained. Eventually, the building turned into a large Condominium/deluxe apartments complex. Just past that condo, another somewhat smaller Condo was built on the grounds of an old small private marina that was closed down.

Then to the North of James Creek Marina, another building or two went up and a new DC soccer stadium as well.

James Creek Marina started raising their slip fees especially since they now had all this Condo dwellers and some wanted to keep boats at the marina. Back in 2019/2020, I believe my annual slip fees had gone thru at least 2 fee raises that year and cost for my slip was approximately $4500. I am sure it is more now. Since I had my boat in those waters from 2005 till sometime after 2019, I was ready for a change. A co-worker that used to work in one of my engrg sections recommended I move my boat 25 miles south to the Quantico Base Marina where he kept his 32' Catalina. So, I checked it out. It has 100 slips with approximately 70% sailboats. It was a bit of a hike to get there - About 50+ minutes driving versus 30+ minutes to James Creek. But it was a different part of the Potomac River to explore and river much wider. Some helicopters but not much else and compared to the DC area...much quieter.....that is, less boats on the water. If you fell overboard during a weekday, no one would notice ! The annual slip cost this year was about $2300 so it is much less expensive. But there are some Base rules to contend with....I use to have a Dept of Defense (DOD) retirement badge good for 7 years but DOD did away with it indicating they could add the electronic info onto the "Real" Driver IDs that were being issued...but that was not really true...especially for gaining access to a Base. Bases still require badges. So, all the bases replaced the retirement badge with a 1 year visitor badge which is sort of insulting and had to renew it every year which was a small pain in the neck. Besides, if you needed access to another base, then you had to go to another PASS Office and have them add the addl Base electronic data onto that same 1 year badge. Then repeat this whole process at the end of the year. With my retirement badge, I was able to escort others onto the Base to bring them on my boat but not with the Visitor Badge. When I had to renew my badge, they luckily made a revision to the policy - a compromise. I now have a 3 year visitor badge and it indicates that I am retired Govt DOD and they added onto it that I am allowed up to 5 visitors that I can escort ontot he base with me. Also, I was able to get a 1 year visitor badge for my spouse...so if she ever has to come separately, she can gain access. Another rule is that only those that live within 35 miles of the base can have a slip at the marina....I am at 32 miles away! Another Base rule, but understandable, military personnel have slip priority over DOD Govt personnel and other Govt personnel. This means if they fill up all the slips and they need another slip and it's for military personnel, then they can kick out a Govt or DOD Govt person from a slip rental. But I have now been there for over 3 years and a number of non-miliary personnel have obtained slips after me. Besides, the marina has always had a number of slips available. It has never been filled up.

Anyway, anyone reading to the end of this posting...you have a lot of patience!

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/07/2025 15:52:32

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