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Bowsprit Brainstorm

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smd
1st Mate

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25 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/23/2021 : 11:59:42

Hey, I'm toying with the idea of fabricating a miniature bowsprit, like the one featured on a C-27 tall rig. I have a good piece of solid teak to work with. What I've looked at suggests I would need to have SS straps made for each side, and an attachment for bobstay. I would use it to attach tack of drifter outside of the pulpit, and possibly for spinnaker tack line. I also just think it would look really nice and be a fun project. Here are a couple of images for reference. Would appreciate any thoughts you all might have. Thanks.

Steven 1984 C-25 SR/SK

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/23/2021 : 13:45:46

Moving the forestay forward by close to a foot significantly changes the basic architecture of the sailplan. It moves some of the sail area forward, and that moves the center of effort (CE) of the sailplan forward of the center of lateral resistance (CLR). I think the effect would be to cause lee helm. Making that alteration would entail considerable expense, including a new forestay and a new jib. I don't think the old jib would work anymore because you'd change the angle of the forestay in relation to the foredeck.

I'm not sure how Catalina added one to the C27 tall rig, but you can't move the jib's sail area forward without affecting the fore and aft balance of the sailplan, so their marine architect must have figured it out. The fact that they only added a bowsprit to the tall rig suggests that they might have thought they couldn't make it work on a standard rig.

I saw a C25 that had a bowsprit fitted to it, but the forestay wasn't relocated onto the bowsprit. I never saw the owner sail the boat, so I don't know whether it was purely ornamental or whether he flew a spinnaker from it.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

smd
1st Mate

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25 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2021 : 14:27:55

Thanks for the thoughts, Steve. My thought was to keep the forestay where it is, as in the C25 you described. I actually meant to include that point in my original post but forgot.

Steven 1984 C-25 SR/SK

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/23/2021 : 19:48:31

quote:
Originally posted by smd

Thanks for the thoughts, Steve. My thought was to keep the forestay where it is, as in the C25 you described. I actually meant to include that point in my original post but forgot.

That being so, forget what I said. If it's strong enough to take the loads, it'll be a good platform to fly an assym. If you want to get crazy, you could fly an assym on a roller furler. Unfurl it to reach and furl it when you turn upwind.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5231 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2021 : 21:04:38

It�ll certainly look very cool. A few thoughts come to mind. Mainly, the bowsprit works because the downward force of the turnbuckle underneath the bowsprit is 100% balanced by the upward force of the forestay. As they used to say in my Statics course in engineering school the vector sum of forces must equal zero. Another thought is that if you don�t have a forestay, you�ll need a brace underneath to support any downward forces on the bowsprit. Maybe a mermaid figurehead? Lastly, if your marina charges by the foot, they will very likely add the projection to your yearly bill.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 04/24/2021 06:36:42

smd
1st Mate

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25 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2021 : 08:59:53

[/quote]That being so, forget what I said. If it's strong enough to take the loads, it'll be a good platform to fly an assym. If you want to get crazy, you could fly an assym on a roller furler. Unfurl it to reach and furl it when you turn upwind.

[/quote]

Having a furler for an assym would be a dream, but also not cheap. It did occur to me, though, that this bowsprit project would be a step in that direction, and if I later come across some deal on a furling setup I would have the place to mount it. In the meantime, I always feel like the gennaker would fly better if even its tack were just slightly forward of the drum on the 'regular' furler.

Steven 1984 C-25 SR/SK

Lee Panza
Captain

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465 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2021 : 13:03:30

Steven:

I've posted about this before, but if you hadn't seen it here's an alternate idea for running a light-air sail on a furler ahead of the working jib. It uses a short cable-stay from the pulpit rail down to the stem fitting to resist the uplift forces; the geometry of the pulpit is such that the lateral component of the force generally aligns with the legs, so there's relatively little force directed sideways on the pulpit.

The continuous-line furler remains on the pulpit all the time, with the halyard and the swivel clipped to it, and I only bring out the sail when I'm anticipating light breezes. However, when the wind kicks up, I roll out the working jib and furl-up the big sail. Its sheets need to remain a little slack so they don't interfere with the jib, but this setup allows me to switch back and forth as the breeze changes (or to fly both sails at once, usually with one of them poled-out opposite the other).

Here's a picture of it in use, although by the time the breeze reaches this level I usually put this sail away and bring out my working jib:

There are a number of other pictures, including close-ups, here:

https://panza.smugmug.com/MYSAILBOAT/The-Boat-Renovation/Screecher-Code-0

This is a relatively easy DIY project. Keep in mind that you'll also need a spinnaker crane at the masthead, but Catalina Direct sells them.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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1736 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2021 : 11:47:58

RE the C27 (and C30) Tall Rig, I bet the added height of the sail combined with the length of the bowsprit together compensated to keep the CE in the same location. On the C25's the tall rig did not require a bowsprit possibly because the boom is lower. Would be interesting to have someone like Gerry Douglas opine.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2021 : 14:09:07

quote:
Originally posted by bigelowp

RE the C27 (and C30) Tall Rig, I bet the added height of the sail combined with the length of the bowsprit together compensated to keep the CE in the same location. On the C25's the tall rig did not require a bowsprit possibly because the boom is lower. Would be interesting to have someone like Gerry Douglas opine.

Makes sense. I think you're right. If you move the sail area of the jib forward, you need to increase some mainsail area aft of the CLR to keep the sailplan balanced. Good thinking!

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

smd
1st Mate

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25 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2021 : 07:38:28

Lee: I've definitely checked out your pulpit design, and linked to your smugmug site. It's very inventive, and something I may try down the road. Curious about the luff length created by the new design. Do you know that offhand?

Steven 1984 C-25 SR/SK

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2021 : 15:20:32

quote:
Originally posted by smd

Curious about the luff length created by the new design. Do you know that offhand?

I just posted a diagram of that sail on my Smugmug account, so here are the dimensions that I gave to the sailmaker: Luff = 26'-7"; Leach = 27'-5"; Foot = 16'-3"

This makes the LP = 15'-9" or apx. 150% of the J dimension.

It's more important to me to be able to see under it, both for collision avoidance (SF Bay can become quite busy) and to be able to enjoy the view; I had my working jib cut high, with the furler drum sitting well above the stem, for the same reasons.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

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