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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Single Handed Sailing?

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Interested Buyer
Deckhand

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3 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/27/2004 : 18:21:50

First, I want to commend you on this forum

. I have found it extremely helpful in clarifying a number of pre-purchase questions/issues I have been pondering. My thanks especially go out to Dan (DKN420) for his photos on the in board engine/sail drive unit, and to Bryan Beamer, Osacar and the General for their responses on warranty issues and other pre-purchase considerations.

Do any of you sail single handed? I am relatively new to sailing and wonder how easy the Catalina 250 WK is to sail solo. Are there modifications I would need to make to bring the lines further back, or any other tips you might share

I am not worried about stepping the mast, rigging or launching from a trailor as I will be keeping the boat in the water.

As always, your feedback is greatly appreciated.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 01/27/2004 : 18:35:01

"Do any of you sail single handed?"
Steve Steakley can probably best answer this - he single-hands more than anyone I know...(and does it very well!)
Derek

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 01/27/2004 : 20:09:25

You're welcome...

I single handed Lady Kay several times last year. And, although you mention it is not an issue, we trailer sail and rigging/clean up is always a solo affair!

Many would want to install an auto pilot or self steering device. The helm is such that in windy conditions it cannot be left alone for long, even with a tiller tamer. I am living without for now.

First must-mod is to bring the jib sheets aft to a coaming winch and cleat so they can be handled from the helm. There are a few threads with pictures on the subject, it is easy to do.

I'm not sure how your boat is configured but the following can make life easier. I led my jib furling line to a cam cleat, on the aft edge of the coach roof. This allows me to operate the line quickly, with one hand and, again, without straying too far from the helm. Also, I led the main halyard, topping lift and reefing lines aft. Some folks have installed either lazy jacks, a flaking system or some sort of quick tie down mechanism for the mainsail.

Last, when sailing alone I wear a harness if the wind gets much above 10-15......nice jack lines port and starboard that I can hook on to before leaving the cockpit......

Good luck,

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 01/27/2004 : 20:27:46

A 25 foot boat is not difficult to manage single handed. The greatest challenges will be docking and especially if an unfavorable crosswind exist. The c250 is light and has a lot of freeboard and docking can be a challenge. The very first mod I made to my boat... was to link the rudder and motor... dock handling issues caught my attention very quickly. Motor steerage in my opinion is a must for the c250 while docking.

Most sailing related concerns can be addressed. An auto pilot for example is a single handers crew because it allows the captain to yield the helm and serve as crew. An auto pilot is the single best effort to setting a boat up for single handing ease and safety.

In my opinion next is jacklines, harness, teather and comfortable life jacket and a plan to get back aboard. The c250 shines in this area with its easily deployed swim ladder and walk thru transom. Some dislike the fact that it doesn't have side decks for moving forward. I've had no problems with working the cabin top up to the mast... and my lines are not led aft, all my sail management is done from on the cabin top, but going forward of the mast requires a long step from the non skid of the cabin top to the non skid on the foredeck. I've busted it there a couple of times... and have developed a lot of respect for that transition.

On the cabin top, loose footing the main helps a lot to providing the needed handhold on the boom top.

That leads into staying in the cockpit... which some put as the highest priority... depending on personal comfort levels. Managing sails from cockpits in my opinion has a two edged sword. While it reduces the odds of something happening while on the cabin top... it may erode the confidence building practice that comes with tending sail handling chores from on the roof. There is no way to stay in the cockpit totally... a whisker pole will need tended or a fouled jib sheet dealt with.

If your question is, does the c250 lend itself to safe and easy single handing on a scale of 1-10. I'd say something less than 5. The reasons again, docking difficulties and lack of side decks requiring transitioning from the cabin top to the foredeck in a long step.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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Response Posted - 01/28/2004 : 08:34:10

With a little experience and planning, a 25' sailboat is easy to single hand. I'd give it closer to a 8 or 9 out of 10. Docking can be intimidating at first, but compared to other keel boats, especially those with an inboard, full keel or simply longer lengths, it's relatively easy. As Arlyn pointed out, the outboard motor is a BIG plus. Extra crew does not always make it easier, especially if they're prone to yell and scream!

As stated above, there are a lot of modifications you can make to help you single hand, and all are very good. But even without these mods, she's not hard to single hand. My recommendation is to keep it simple for the first year and build your confidence. Make the mods later for the convenience. Then, when things go wrong (and believe me things DO go wrong), you'll be better prepared to handle it.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2004 : 09:33:53

I have single handed my C250 WB basically all the time. I have all the lines coming back to the cockpit with the exception of the main halyard. Perhaps my best investment was a device called a "dockcatcher". My dock is perhaps two feet lower than the side of the boat. Reaching a dock line was at best a one shot deal with cross wind dockings. The dockcatcher is a fiberglass pole attached to the dock with a hook attached to the top of the pole, very easy to grab when coming in under any conditions. One end of the dock line is wrapped on the hook. If the wind is really moving the boat around coming in I grab the dock line and wrap the dock line around one of the winches and winch the boat into the dock. May be viewed at www.dockcatcher.com. $47.95. "Bear" on the hard in upstate N.Y.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2004 : 14:10:54

I think the simple phrase "single Hand" is misleading. I single hand on an inland lake so my exposure is minimal. I could drown but the only sailor we have ever lost was on a crowded boat of drunks. Single handing to Catalina has also got to be different than single handing out of the northeast.

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ssteakley
Captain

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467 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2004 : 21:05:11

Singlehanding?
Number 1 is safety: wear your PFD, winds 10+ put on the harness and a tether. Learn that you always have a hand for yourself and one for the boat. Make sure a family member knows where you are. Carry communication devices, cell phone, VHF, flares.
Number 2: With my Outboard which swings 180 degrees docking is simple. Practice makes almost perfect...winds always test you. I have a "Stirrup" in my slip if all else fails, basically a V shapped 1/2" 3 strand nylon line about 1 foot above the water level & a fender tied into the notch that catches the boat if I fail the test.
Number 3: Lead all lines to the cockpit so you do not have to go forward. Unless something hangs up etc. KEEP YOUR LINES ORGANIZED AND NEAT, stepping on lines is the best way to slip & fall.
4. Practice balancing the boat so it sails itself..freeing you up to adjust lines or just enjoy the sail.
5. Learn how to Heave-To so you can run below for whatever reason.
6. practice dragging a 100' line with a small float at the end of the line so you can see how fast you would have to be if you fell off. It is surprising that even at 3 knots how fast the boat moves.
7. attach a short line to the swim ladder catch so that if you were in the water and pulled it the ladder would drop down.
8. When the water is warm get some crew and practice jumpng off as the boat sails away and see if you can find your way back on board.
9. At night a tether & a strob light on your pfd before you leave the docks.
Single handing is fun, you can secretly race other boats, sail near others and practice rules of the road

Edited by - ssteakley on 01/28/2004 22:54:38

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2004 : 15:17:45

I single - hand my C25 about 100 days per year (not kidding - I sail most every summer night after work and every weekend year round). I was worried and nervous the first few times about docking and departing. So sail a few times with crew. Then gradually reduce their roles until they are just sitting and enjoying the boat ride and you do everything.

A tiller pilot is essential - with an autotack feature. Lines run aft with organizers and clutches are nearly so. Roller furling is a big help. Self tailing winches help. I have a harness and tether, but almost never have to go forward of the mast.

I tend to get overwhelmed sometimes in big winds and heavy seas. Reef early and sail conservative.

I usually motor out of my upwind slip but sail back in (under main alone). Maneuvering these boats is simple. It takes some practice to coordinate motor, controls, looking backward, and using the tiller. A good approach is to give the boat a burst of speed coming down the fairway (get her up to about 1.5 knots), then put the motor in neutral, forget it, and steer into your slip. Step off the stern with a line in your hand and tie off. Shut down the motor (you kept it at idle in case of an unexpected situation). Walk to the bow and tie off.

If you're sailing in, I usually have the motor ticking over in neutral in case of emergency. Genny is rolled up. Main is dumped so that the boat is barely moving (1 to 1.5 knots). Pull in the sheet now and then to keep moving. Piece of cake. When you turn into you slip let the mainsheet go free. Tie off as before, then drop the main.

The nice thing about single handing is that you learn to handle the boat, and everyone on board is always having fun.

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

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USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2004 : 23:30:51

What is really cool is to single hand your boat while other buddies single hand theirs...just like dingy racing only with a "big" boat!!

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 01/30/2004 : 00:49:37

GARY - speaking of single handing, right now I am planning to spend the night Friday so I'll be ready to go sailing early Saturday. I'd like to catch some fish for a change. I may very well anchor out in Mariner's Basin just for the fun of it.

Karen and the girls are going to a school play (I can do without) so I have Friday night free.

Sailed 2 nights after work this week - days are getting longer and feels like summer is almost here! Birds were diving all around the red bouy tonight. I almost got my fishing gear out but I was still in my work clothes (they can do without fish blood!) Sailed into the slip in very light air by about 6:30 (pitch dark). Warm and calm - no jacket required. That is a great way to end a very tough day.

If you get down there Saturday morning call me on my cell or Indiscipline on VHF 16.

Edited by - on

Jonl9
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 01/30/2004 : 02:18:45

Great thread, thanks. While I ponder a 250WK for single handing, I really come to the conclusion that the tiller arrangement might be better for single handing than the wheel. It appears one is closer to the action with the tiller and more able to go tend a problem should one occur.

Curious what all of your thoughts are on this?

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 01/30/2004 : 06:59:39

http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/wheelornot.html

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matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2004 : 07:18:28

Tiller without a doubt. I would say that's true on most boats less than 30'. They're simplier, less expensive, fewer things to go wrong and give you a much better feel for the balance of the boat. When anchored, you can lift them up out of the way to make more room in the cockpit. When single handing they're easy to lash (see [url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4349"]message[/url] posted by Dave for a cheap and easy method) and autopilots for tillers tend to be less expensive.

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willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2004 : 07:44:38

Jim B you are driving me crazy!!!! I am sitting here in snow covered Delaware with sub zero wind chills and snow on the ground and you are talking about having sailed twice this week and getting an early start on Saturday. Why do I live here??? UGGH
By the way... I followed your trip across the Great Lakes, down the Hudson, etc., and was most entertained by your photo of Lucy the Elephant in Margate who guards the beach of the dolled up ladies!
Willy

Edited by - on

Jonl9
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 01/30/2004 : 14:02:51

Thank you, Arlyn.

That's a very good summary.

My previous sailboat was a Cape Dory 30, with wheel steering. All sheets were led back to the cockpit in that boat, so it was easy for me to single hand that boat from the wheel steering. Wasn't sure about the 250, I guess I do tend toward the tiller, I've had that as well in the past and while it can be a cockpit knee sweeper, for the single hander, it's probably the best.

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Jonl9
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 01/30/2004 : 14:10:14

And, thank you, Matshe, I appreciate the reference to that thread.

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2004 : 20:33:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jonl9
 Thank you, Arlyn.

That's a very good summary.

My previous sailboat was a Cape Dory 30, with wheel steering. All sheets were led back to the cockpit in that boat, so it was easy for me to single hand that boat from the wheel steering. Wasn't sure about the 250, I guess I do tend toward the tiller, I've had that as well in the past and while it can be a cockpit knee sweeper, for the single hander, it's probably the best.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I‘ve single handed a few boats, after having a wheel I most definitely like single handing a wheel better. On my C250 you can let go of the wheel to make adjustments without setting the brake and the boat will hold the course. One thing that is a must single handing a C250 is coaming winches. Other than that no other changes.

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Grego5
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2004 : 00:07:22

Thanks for all of the posts. Single handing will be a big issue with me. The passenger (a lot of your call her the Admiral) is content to have hot chocolate below decks and come top side for good weather, and leave the work to me. I bought my craft on her "suggestion" that we need a boat. I 've had the boat since November and have yet to get it out of the slip. I keep looking for sowmone to help me out of and back in the slip as a safety observer and to help me out of tight situations while I build my confidence. I have litttle experience handleing anything less than 200 HP by myself and none singlehanding a sailboat, and finding a crew in the Pacific Nortweset in winter is hard to come by. I hope to be able to use your tips by summertime. My boat is never lonely (I'm there every weekend)but she is bucking in her slip wanting to run for an afternoon.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 02/08/2004 : 06:06:00

Say Greg, have you given any thought to going to Nationals, also in the Pacific NW. You could sign up for crew who would be able to help you gain some confidence sailing your boat.

Re single handing. For most of us it is purely a matter of stepping out in faith and doing it. One thing you might want to do is to leave the mooring, under power, and motor around a bit, and head back in. This will give you some experience with the boat. When you are feeling comfortable with the leaving and returning to dock, then start sailing.

You will be a pro before you know it!

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2004 : 09:12:36

Greg,
My biggest gain when I bought Brandy was sailing lessons, I had never sailed anything before and generally figured most things out but never refined them, also scared myself a time or two plus the admiral. Perhaps there is a willing body up there who would go with you a few times, also once your clear of the docks there is plenty of room to correct errors. I also tried approaching channel buoys with the sails up, that was good practice, lots of rom to correct errors...God Luck... "Bear" on the hard in upstate N.Y.

Edited by - on

Grego5
1st Mate

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USA
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Response Posted - 02/08/2004 : 10:39:22

Thanks for the tips. Yes I plan to go to the Nationals (I'm getting my schedule worked otu right now). As far as sailing lessions I've signed up and paid for lessons but they don't start until March. I'm not moving the boat until I have someone to give me a hand (and that is hard to come up with in Feb). I may have a chance today after my Soccer game (I'll post a clip or two if we go out)

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
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Response Posted - 02/08/2004 : 18:21:02

Grego,

Look forward to meeting you and your Admiral at Nationals. It will be a good opportunity to learn, and talk with others who have a boat like yours. I'm sailing with Steve and Charlotte Dube on their 250 wb. Arranged the placement through the Fleet 94 (host fleet) web site. If you need crew, I encourage you to sign up and see what happens.

Edited by - on

Chip Hunt
Navigator

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120 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2004 : 18:11:59

learning to single hand is kinda like learning to swim. read everything you can find on the subject, find a safe place, and then jump in. you should start off by single handing on a light-wind day and then move up when you are more comfortable. you will find that single handing a 25 footer is not the hardest of challenges.

Edited by - on

Grego5
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 19:01:33

Don. I'll be there, I'm not suer of th days yet (one or two of them will be work related).. I differ from the rest of the members you have Admirals I have a passenger. The Passenger spent a good deal of her adult life in the Navy (I did as well) and the Navy Reserves she feels that the title of Admiral denotes some type of responsibility. She feels that the responsibility of bringing the boat and passger home safely rests on my shoulders.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 20:15:00

Before I adopted the use of the term "Admiral", I occasionally referred to "the one with great class and beauty", both of which are foreign to me, as "the Owner"

....

Oscar, in Jacksonville making BU's

Edited by - Oscar on 02/14/2004 20:15:57

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