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Robert
1st Mate

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USA
75 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/13/2003 : 14:45:04

Last summer, I was trying to get my C250WB on the trailer during a 20 knot crosswind on the SF Bay. Although the trailer was close enough to the dock to get it on the trailer, I had to refloat it 3 times inorder to center it. I was wondering if anyone has tried to use tailer boat guide. If so, is using the worth considering?

2WX@55

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2003 : 15:41:37

I've seen those poles on other trailers.....mostly stinkpotters with marine life massacre tendencies....must be the only thing you can do with the bottom third of a $1500.00 fishing pole after Jaws takes off with the rest.........<img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>
In all seriousness, I am interested to see the replies to your post, because sooner or later I will end up in the scenario you described, and maybe the poles are worth the effort.($$$)
I did wake up a while ago at three am.....thinking "holy sh.....what do you do in a situation like that", and the plan I came up with, for now, is to tie two lines to the stern cleats, bring them forward to shore, give one to the mrs. and one to an innocent bystander and as they, on my confusing an at times contradicting commands keep her centered, I crank.

My favorite marina on the Chesapeake (Sailing Emporium, in Rock Hall Md) is open for business......hoping for 70's+ Thursday through Sunday......and...
I think this post is going to pop me to a higher level....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>...it did, I be a skipper..<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Life is good.

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - Oscar on 04/13/2003 15:42:36

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2003 : 17:42:22

Robert,

Ditto your problem. I have the same problem when recovering my boat with a strong crosswind. The problem is that the ramp I use is rather steep and in order to get the front part of the trailer low enough in the water to get the bow to float over the bow roller, the back end of the trailer is so deep in the water that the bunk boards do nothing to catch the boat and get/keep it centered. To compound the problem, I am typically loading the boat by myself.

I bought some of the pole guides (at West Marine) and mounted them with no problem. Actually, the U-bolts supplied were too short for the thick I-beams of the Trail-Rite trailer, so I had to buy some longer ones. The guides come with 48 inch PVC which slip over the aluminum guides themselves. However, with my trailer backed in, 48 inches was not enough; too low in the water to do much good at 'trapping' the boat. I bought 72 inch PVC at Home Depot and slipped them onto metal guides. Works great! When trailering somewhere, I just slip the PVC off and store them on the trailer.

As an additional bit of assistance, I tied some guide lines from the top of the PVC to the winch mount on the front of the trailer. Bascially it's the same principle as the guide lines that people put in a wet slip which come to a point with a fender tied horizontally to help catch the bow when pulling into the slip.

With these two aids, I can now get the boat on the trailer and keep her there while I climb forward and pull her out MUCH easier than before. Granted, it looks a little "stink-pottish," but I got damned tired of fighting the winds and continually banging my bow around trying to get her loaded.

I'm out of town now, but hopefully later this week or early next I'll be at the boat and will try to take a couple of pictures and post them.

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2003 : 22:11:07

I have done the side guides and rope V... and find the most effective method is to set the trailer at an ideal height that allows sticking the bunks. Using a soft link for additional steering... motor into the wind and make a 90 deg turn onto the bunk boards. Reverese must be used to kill forward boat speed and timing is important.

If there is a bollard to windward...use lines. Run one line thru a shackle at the stem and back to the leeward winch and the other to the windward winch. If help is available and they are handing the lines... be sure they belay the lines on something as its quite difficult for someone to hold the boat against much wind.

Once...I even set an anchor to the side of the ramp (no one around to help or laugh)

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2003 : 22:46:41

>Once...I even set an anchor to the side of the ramp, (no one around to help or laugh)<

Not a laughing matter at all....we must utilize all available tools to accomplish the objective......just one question, how did you retrieve the anchor, or was it on dry land...roughly where I wanted to position the innocent bystander? Which gives me the idea to add a screw anchor to the trailer tooling package, the type you attach goats to, cheap at the farm store, I could put a block on it and lead the line from the windward stern to the anchor to the trailer......this way I could control the stern and the winch......pull the stern slightly to windward, and as the boat comes forward the angle decreases and she'd straighten herself out, or I could just slacken it up a little and let the wind help me....

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - Oscar on 04/13/2003 22:52:33

Edited by - on

Robert
1st Mate

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USA
75 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2003 : 12:42:19

Thank you for your input. You have given me much to think about. I am glad that I am not the only one who has had these problems. I must admit, I felt a little foolish taking three attempts to get the keel on the bunk. I am out of practice using a trailer since our last two boats were larger fixed keel boats. I will share my impromptu fix. I measured two lines that were tied to the trailer and used to secure boat to the back of the trailer. I then took the measured and marked lines up to the combing winches and winched them in tight. I was careful to keep equalizing the lines by alternating the turns until I reached the measured marks. We then took the boat out of water. To this day, I am not sure if I brought the boat over center of the trailer or if I lifted the trailer to the boat. Oh well, it worked.
Your suggestions, seem much better. Right now, the boat is on the hard and I can't wait to take it to my slip at Whiskeytown lake. I should have put the boat in the water last month when the weather was spring-like, but now it is raining and there is snow on the mountain caps around the lake. Oh well! Thanks for you input. Robert

2WX@55

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2003 : 13:30:28

Robert,

Sorry it's taken this long to remember to take the camera with me when I went to the lake. Here's some shots of a launch with the trailer guides:

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d832b3127cce893e100a7f800000001610" border=0>

Steep ramp; long, too. This is only about two thirds of the way down the ramp. See the last photo.

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d832b3127cce893e10f7fe4d0000001610" border=0>

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d832b3127cce893e10f5fe4f0000001610" border=0>

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d832b3127cce893e10f1fe4b0000001610" border=0>

The shot above is during launch, ballast tank empty. When recovering, I have back a little farther so that the bow roller is just below the water surface.

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d832b3127cce893e10fffe450000001610" border=0>

The port trailer guide is the second white vertical object from the left in the photo. It's tall enough to see it well even when all the way at the wheel of the boat.

As I said, this set up works well, even when there's a good crosswind and when I'm by myself. The poles slide off and the line to the front of the trailer comes off very quickly when taking it on the road (don't want to look like a stinpotter!).

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - on

Robert
1st Mate

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USA
75 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2003 : 00:54:58

Bren, thank you for the pictures. I am going to follow up on the use of the guides. Robert

2WX@55

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2003 : 15:58:12

Bren,

Can I trouble you for a picture of the way the pole is mounted to the trailer? Where...how....? While you're at it, I noticed your halyards etc. lead aft. I'm contemplating that mod.....can you shoot a picture of the deck layout, specifically the blocks at the bottom of the mast, and the organizers?

Thanks a lot,

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake:
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/Forumshots/chesapeake.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Oscar on 06/18/2003 16:02:18

Edited by - on

Rubin Hawkins
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2003 : 10:24:42

Here are some pictures of my trailer guides. As you can see this is a Performance trailer so this may not be useful for those with a different manufacture.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d838b3127cce89e5d2efeb2f0000001610" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d838b3127cce89e5d2fe6a0e0000001610" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d838b3127cce89e5d2b9eb790000001610" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d838b3127cce89e5d2806a700000001610" border=0>

This trailer also has a guide for the keel. I am not sure if other trailers have this or not. I can tell you the boat guides come into play before the keel guide.

Rubin
Windy Joy
C250 WB #591

Edited by - on

jkountz
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
48 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2003 : 21:19:23

Very impressive, I think this thread merits a tech tip. The pictures are super and the idea is a must have improvement for anyone that trailers.

Great work!

John Kountz
Foolish Treasure #668

Edited by - on

Rubin Hawkins
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2003 : 16:47:56

Bren,

I would like to see pictures of how you have the rigging led aft also.

Rubin
Windy Joy
C250 WB #591

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

Members Avatar

291 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2003 : 00:05:10

Oscar,

No trouble at all! Ironically, I had the trailer home today adding the bow roller 'side covers' Arlyn had mentioned. They took a total of about 30 minutes to cut, cover and install.

I installed the roller guides strictly by eye-balling it. With the boat on the trailer I bolted them on and then adjusted them to get about a two inch clearance on either side.

As far as my aft-led rigging. . . I'll try to remember to take some pics next week when I'm at the boat, however, I haven't done anything special to her. She's rigged exactly the way I took delivery of her last year. Maybe the 2002 model is slightly different from y'alls. I'll post the pics here when I get them next week.

If you have any questions on the poles, please let me know.

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d801b3127cce8990a7a14eb20000001610" border=0>

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d801b3127cce8990a7aecf8d0000001610" border=0>

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d801b3127cce8990a7af4ebc0000001610" border=0>

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d801b3127cce8990a7accf8f0000001610" border=0>

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d801b3127cce8990cb754e500000001610" border=0>

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2003 : 09:13:24

Thanks for the pix...on the 2002 no cabintop lines are led aft.....guess they changed it with the 2003 model year.

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake:
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/Forumshots/chesapeake.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2003 : 09:51:24

Oscar, are you referring to the water ballast boat? Since the wings introduction, it has had lines led to cockpit.

I’m guessing that Catalina was trying to keep the rigging simpler for a trailered boat.

Bryan Beamer made the point that control lines should be in one or the other location but not both… which results in a Chinese fire drill. To rig all the lines aft on a trailered boat: halyards, reefing, topping lift, vang and outhaul would mean extra setup time.

For the trailer cruiser, who travels only a few times a year… it wouldn’t be a problem with an extra 15-20 minutes setup but on a boat regularly trailered it wouldn’t be appreciated.

Btw… Bryan also noted that Catalina discontinued routing the reefing line to the cockpit on the wing version. A previous discussion of that is in the archives.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2003 : 16:03:38

Oscar,

I'm not sure about what you mean about lines led aft. My boat is a 2002 water-ballast and came rigged with everything led aft except for the reefing line, which cleats to the starboard side of the base of the mast. Again, I'll try to remember to take some pics next week.

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2003 : 16:15:53

Bren, did you order yours that way as an option? Or, is Catalina now running lines aft on the water ballast model also.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

Members Avatar

291 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2003 : 17:02:31

Arlyn,

I did order the boat, but it was not an option, just standard for the '02. It seems I remember talking to David at Catalina just before I placed the order because the 250 brochure (on the Catalina web site) listed various differences between the WB and WK. He said that starting in '02 both boats would be supplied with the same rigging, winches, etc. (for example, the WB now having the spreader turnbuckles mounted on the cabin top instead of the gunwhales, both boats having 16ST winches). Supposedly, it was to make the 'assembly line process' and production supply line less complicated and expensive.

I'm not sure of the rigging on Oscar's boat. His hull number is not that far from mine. I ordered my boat in early Feb of 2002.

I guess my question is what's considered 'aft?' All of my lines run to the aft side of the cabin top but not all the way to the aft of the cockpit area. I think I remember someone in a thread long ago mentioning doing that.

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - bren737 on 06/21/2003 17:05:05

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2003 : 17:22:50

My 2002 WB has nothing led aft, except for the jib-furler and sheets.

I know that leading things aft adds time to MUMD (MastUpMastDown), however with judicious use of snapshackles, and finding good places to tie things on the way down, and doing it the same all the time, the added time can be kept to a minimum. (If you do it right there's no need to unthread all but a few of the organizers and stoppers.)

I am willing to spend a little extra time though to have the comfort. (Read safety.) We sail water that is big relative to the size of the boat, and I've got two little ones, and a well intended but inexperienced other half, so I need to keep excursions out of the cockpit to a minimum.

Yes, some stuff up top, and some to the back can lead to a triple mongolian chicken dance, but, again, if you think it through, set it up right and do it the same every time it can work.

EX: Reefing. From the cockpit, set a course and adjust jib, main. Tension topping lift to desired postition, slacken main necessary amount of feet. Tighten clew reefing line.

Honey, hold this course. (I don't have the autohelm, I think it would only be in the way in anything other than light air on this boat....plus, you can yell at it, but it doesn't yell back<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>)

Go up, hook the tack in the reefing hook (yep, got that one and love it) clean up the unused portion of the sail and tie the three reefing ties, and hoppa, back in the cockpit to finish things off. (halyard, topping lift)Time on deck to a minimum.

Finally, I think it would make a difference in re-saleability should that occasion arise, (setting yourself apart from the competition) and with relatively little $$ and some elbow grease I think it would be worth my while.

But that's just me.....

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake:
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/Forumshots/chesapeake.jpg" border=0>

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