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Which new sail?

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SailTowery
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/15/2019 : 14:38:52

In the last 3 seasons, I have purchased a new Dacron main, 1/2 oz VMG kite and a carbon AP#1. I have 30 year old Dacron #2 and #3 and a 3/4 oz kite still in the inventory. What should be my next sail?

The 3/4 oz kite is a bit tired but still a decent sail. So I'm thinking getting a heavy #1. We go pretty damn well in under 7 knots with the AP1. However, I have never felt the #2 had a good enough wind range. I feel an good H1 can perform better than a bad #2 and if we're overpowered we can reef and un-reef faster than we can change a headsail.

Any thoughts?

Ben
Little Wing
Hull #422
https://www.facebook.com/capri25littlewing/

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5882 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2019 : 08:48:22

We don't know the wind conditions at your venue, so your judgment is necessarily better than ours, but FWIW, the way I decide on sail replacements or additions is to identify the conditions when I'm not as competitive as I should be with other boats. When my competitiveness wanes in stronger winds, for example, it's either because I'm not trimming or helming well in those conditions, or because something isn't right with my equipment. If the problem is with trimming or helming, a new sail won't help. You have to accurately identify the cause to know how to rectify it.

You have probably analyzed the situation correctly, but, before you write a big check for a new sail, eliminate all other reasons why you might not be getting the results you want.

On my Cal 25 racer, I found and eliminated problems with the hardware, rig tuning and running rigging, and then bought a new #1 genoa, and still wasn't getting the hoped-for results, and reviewed my trimming and helming practices and am now winning consistently in light to moderate winds. I'm still struggling in strong winds, but am making progress, and believe the remedy will be mostly in trimming and helming, rather than new sails.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5882 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2019 : 19:59:52

Hmmm. You got me thinking. Maybe a Heavy #1 would help me with my performance in stronger winds. Maybe I'll attend the Chicago Sailboat Show this winter and talk with a North Rep about the idea. In fact, when I want a really informed opinion about sails, I always consult one of the top name sailmakers. They don't charge for talk, and they've always given me really good advice.

Obviously, I'm thinking you might be right about the heavy #1, but what about alternatives? What percentage is your #2? 135? If it's a 110, what about a 135 instead of a heavy 155?

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

SailTowery
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2019 : 09:19:57

Great thoughts Steve!

While I'm not the perfect sailor, my crew and I sail the boat pretty well. The bottom is fair, we keep the hardware and rigging in great running shape. More often than not, the difference between winning and back of the fleet comes down to getting the shift or not.

Our lake is typical of most mountain lakes...it can blow 0-25 and back to zero in an afternoon. It can also be a steady 12-15, a steady 25-30 or a steady 0-5. Just roll the dice! We kind of have to be prepared for anything each day.

The boat is old and so are many of the sails. So as we work to improve all aspects of our racing, inevitably, 30 year old sails will become a factor. My plan has always been to replace the sails that need it most so i budget for that each year. I have the whats needed now for the next replacement.

It's the cross over windspeeds that are trickiest. We race with 5 people and 3 of us are over 200 lbs. So hiking weight isn't a problem. We can get a lot out of a bigger sail, as long as that sail can hold up to the stronger winds.

Our #2 is 135% and the #3 is the class 110%. The AP1 is 155%. I'm thinking a heavy 150% #1 might be an awesome sail.

Ben
Little Wing
Hull #422
https://www.facebook.com/capri25littlewing/

SailTowery
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2019 : 11:11:14

Looking further, it looks like EP Sails has the #2 at 140%. That may be a nice split the difference kind of thing. 140% vs 135% may be the difference in feeling under powered in the lulls when the #2 is up.

Ben
Little Wing
Hull #422
https://www.facebook.com/capri25littlewing/

TCurran
Admiral

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USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2019 : 10:33:03

Took advantage of his fall sail and ordered a 140 from Harry at EP sails. Really liked the main I got from him last fall, still waiting on the 140, hopefully by Christmas. Both are Dacron, don't need anything else for our club racing.

Tom Curran
1981 Capri 25 Hull #101 "Dirty Debbie"
1988 Watkins 30
PAFB, FL

SailTowery
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2019 : 13:30:17

Yep. I pulled the trigger on a 140% #2 with my sailmaker, Ballard Sails in Seattle. Haven't decided on cloth selection yet. We're in storage for the winter now but will be taking the boat to Lake Pleasant, AZ for the AYC Birthday Regatta in Feb. It's usually quite light there in Feb. But I'm excited for the new sail!

Ben
Little Wing
Hull #422
https://www.facebook.com/capri25littlewing/

TCurran
Admiral

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USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2019 : 11:11:46

Let me amend my praise for Harry and EP sails. This thread got me thinking, I paid the 50% deposit late Sep with a stated delivery date of late Oct, early Nov. Just found out today (22 Nov) the sail hasn't even been submitted for production yet and I'm looking at maybe an early Jan delivery. No email, phone call, etc to tell me it was pushed back, I had to ask for an update. I would not have agreed to a Jan delivery date in Sep and looked elsewhere.

So Ben, smart move going with the guys you know. I might PM you on FB for their info if I can get my deposit back.

Tom Curran
1981 Capri 25 Hull #101 "Dirty Debbie"
1988 Watkins 30
PAFB, FL

Edited by - TCurran on 11/22/2019 11:12:44

SailTowery
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2019 : 15:26:00

Tom, I just PM'd you on FB. I hope it works out with EP.

Ben
Little Wing
Hull #422
https://www.facebook.com/capri25littlewing/

TCurran
Admiral

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USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2019 : 20:22:23

Ben, Harry refunded the deposit, apologized for the bad note taking and confusion on his part, and offered to make it up in the future. So, all in all I think it was an honest mistake on his part and might take him up on another sail in the future. I still want to purchase a 140 before our season starts in January, might try a local loft.

Tom Curran
1981 Capri 25 Hull #101 "Dirty Debbie"
1988 Watkins 30
PAFB, FL

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.