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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5320 Posts
Initially Posted - 10/25/2019 :  21:25:38  Show Profile
Been out sailing these few nice days before winter layup on the hard. With steady brisk fall wind conditions I regularly sail on 15° of heel, and sometimes more.
I keep my rigging snug but never tight, so when she heels the windward shrouds become spring tight and the leeward shrouds go a little slack.
Of late, I’ve begun to hear a definite creaky sound on the cabintop when she just heels over. I’m wondering about the laminate under the tabernacle or the compression post starting to soften up. Neither area shows any signs of wetness or decay, but as we all know, rust never sleeps, which goes for rot too.
Anybody ever hear creaking around the base of their mast? Should I crank down the shrouds by a turn each to see if it goes away? Chainplates are all good, I recaulked all six this spring.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9047 Posts
Response Posted - 10/26/2019 :  07:23:59  Show Profile
Is the sound metal-on-metal? Is the bolt through the tabernacle snug? (It can shift in the slots.) Can you detect any compression of the deck around the edges of the base plate under the tabernacle? Might the tabernacle be shifting slightly on the base plate? (It wouldn't take much to make a noise.)

I assume you've seen televised AC races where the rigs are creaking and groaning loudly throughout the race... Maybe Passage is aspiring to be a racer!
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4012 Posts
Response Posted - 10/26/2019 :  13:03:48  Show Profile
Gee Bruce, Just turn the radio up louder. Honestly my rigging moans and groans at times. You might be able to isolate the squeak by using a squirt bottle with water. Start with the base of the mast. Wet it down and see if the squeak disappears. If not move on to each shroud one at a time. You get the idea. Glad your getting a few more in. I stripped the sails today and removed the usual stuff. Haul out is Monday. I'm done.
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


Edited by - islander on 10/26/2019 13:27:08
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Wnccat25
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts
Response Posted - 10/28/2019 :  08:17:55  Show Profile
Rigging should not be so loose that the mast leans from one side to the other. According to the manual and you should be able to lean back, pull, on each stay with a 50 pound pull and it deflect not more than an inch. Or something like that? Berry, berry important, you no understand? Yearn that baby up!
INDIAN, 89 Catalina 25,wing keel,short rig, classic. W-NC
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Wnccat25
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts
Response Posted - 10/28/2019 :  08:20:29  Show Profile
Tear that baby up!
INDIAN, 89 Catalina 25,wing keel,short rig, classic. W-NC
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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9047 Posts
Response Posted - 10/28/2019 :  18:53:14  Show Profile
Racers like loose rigs they can manipulate in races... Cruisers tend toward tighter rigs. Too loose on a boat that lives on a mooring with wave action can allow shock-loads at the rig attachments as the boat rolls side-to-side. Too tight, particularly on the upper shrouds and stays, can cause "mast pumping" where, at rest, a strong wind causes the mast to rhythmically pop from bent to one side to bent to the opposite side (or fore-and aft). It's a weird sub-sonic action that shakes the whole boat, and is bad for the whole rig.

I didn't race, and kept Passage just barely tight enough that my leeward shrouds didn't go slack--I know Derek Crawford, one of the association's past premier C-25 racers, liked his waving in the breeze.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5320 Posts
Response Posted - 10/28/2019 :  20:50:04  Show Profile
Hey Wnccat, I appreciate your enthusiasm. I just hauled out for the season and the tabernacle, cabintop and shrouds are on the top of my check list. I did not drop the mast last year but I need to this year since my windvane appears loose and I like to check the rigging pins every other year.

Last time I dropped the mast, I counted turns for each shroud and stay. I could have messed up when I stepped the mast last time.

Dave, the creak sounds less like grinding metal and more like fiberglass and wood. I’ll try to determine whether the tabernacle is loose or the compression post is compromised.

And you’re right, the racing boats have traditionally made horrifying groans and squeals while winching, tacking and gybing.

Thought they were just sound effects to scare their rivals. ;-)
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
Edited by - Voyager on 10/28/2019 20:51:46
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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1757 Posts
Response Posted - 10/29/2019 :  10:37:51  Show Profile
Bruce -- FWIW -- I drop the mast every winter. I view it as cheap insurance AND an opportunity to check wear and tear on the rigging. Why? Ever walk through a boatyard when it is blowing 20+ (or higher) and hear the wind in the rigging of boats with mast up that are on the hard? That is the sound of stress and without the "shock absorber" called water, it puts a lot of strain on the standing rigging, which can loosen or stretch the rig causing squeaks and groans. As the season heads toward an end Limerick also begins to groan. That is when I retune the rig focusing on if any part of it has stretched, loosened or is showing wear. Check chain plates and through deck fittings as well. My guess is that all is fine, just needing a tune-up.
Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5320 Posts
Response Posted - 11/03/2019 :  11:36:11  Show Profile
Yes Peter, it’s a good practice to check things regularly. I commented to a fellow sailor in the the boatyard yesterday, it’s good that Winter forces us to decommission our boats, otherwise we’d probably NEVER do periodic maintenance on them. Thinking about our warmer climate friends, they must have tremendous will power to maintain their boats.
As mentioned, Passage is up on jackstands now and I took down the sails yesterday. I noticed that my rig was a wee bit wobbly. The backstay is cranked down all the way but I noticed some “give” in the furler. Once I had the jib off I was able to raise the furler foil a little bit and noticed that my forestay turnbuckle was about 1/3 of the way down. The cotter pin was fine however the last time around I was adjusting things back and forth, and maybe forgot the last “forth”?
This was probably the cause of the creaks and groans.
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9047 Posts
Response Posted - 11/04/2019 :  12:42:03  Show Profile
Yup--racers like loose rigs, and serious race boats creak, groan, moan, squeak, and bang!
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.