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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Flying an asymmetrical

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Go Slo
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/25/2019 : 18:56:06

How do yall rig your asymmetrical spinnaker? Have mine connected to the anchor roller to try to get it as far forward as possible. But never feel like il t is flying correctly.

"GO Slo" 1989 Catalina 25 SR/WK standard interior

HerdOfTurtles
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2019 : 09:15:24

Mine has a single brass hank at the tack which I clip onto the forestay. I tie a line from the tack to one of the bow cleats. Tighten the tack line for reaching and loosen it for running.

1978 Standard Rig
Fin Keel
L-Dinette

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2019 : 11:03:44

Flying an asym well takes a bit of practice. Being able to tighten or loosen the tack is very helpful. I never really found a good way to arrange the tack attachment point. I always intended to experiment with mounting it to the anchor roller. Anyway, after trying a few different things I started going with this method. A block is tied off between the two bow cleats. The tack line leads to the cockpit so it can be adjusted.

The only downside is if you want to gybe, you must lower the sock and move the sail to the new side and reraise the sock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt-GXf8cXrw&

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2019 : 11:54:19

J have a drifter that flys free so it's similar but tacks like a gigantic Genoa.
One thing I do because I single hand is attach a long 1/4" line to the tack and run that through a block at the bow and all the way back to the cockpit with plenty of extra. Then when (if) the wind pipes up I can release the spin halyard (all lines led aft) and bring the sail into the cockpit then into the cabin to cleaned up later. Unfurl the Genoa (150) and be on my way.

John Gisondi
Peregrine #4762

*

Edited by - Peregrine on 08/21/2019 16:21:35

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2019 : 20:44:49

quote:
Originally posted by Go Slo

How do yall rig your asymmetrical spinnaker? Have mine connected to the anchor roller to try to get it as far forward as possible.

I've posted about this before, in a different context, but a relatively easy DIY mod could allow mounting an asym out in front of the forestay and/or roller-furling jib. The picture below shows how I had installed a u-bolt on my pulpit rail, as well as a short cable stay from my bow light bracket down to the combination anchor roller and stem fitting. However, a much simpler assembly could be fabricated just for flying an asym.

If one doesn't have a bow light bracket in the way, a pair of eye nuts and a short piece of threaded rod (or an eye bolt with an eye nut screwed onto its shank), could be installed on the rail through a single vertical hole. Alternately, a single eyebolt could penetrate the rail horizontally, and both the cable stay and the sail's tack could be attached to the same eye.

The cable stay, with a turnbuckle for tensioning it, requires nothing more than a couple of swage sleeves crimped on with a hand swage tool (a very useful tool to have around anyway; I use the type consisting of two square bars and a couple of bolts). This does, however, require an available hole in the stem fitting.

It might make it easier to trim the asym if a block is attached to the eyebolt instead of the tack being directly attached. In this picture you can see a block attached to the stem fitting with a line running up and to the right; that's the fore-guy for my whisker pole in use. Without a furler this could serve as a tack downhaul via a block at the u-bolt.

I'd imagine the immediate reaction might be that even with the cable stay the pulpit rail isn't strong enough to fly a sail off of. But if you look at the geometry of the pulpit assembly, and if you consider that most of the load applied by the sail is primarily upward (the only direction that a string, or the tack of a sail, can transmit force is in-line tension), this arrangement may not be as reckless as it might seem at first. The cable stay takes most of the upward loading and converts some of it into compression in the pulpit legs.

If you still have reservations, here's a shot of my 155% Code0-gennaker (I'm not really sure what to call it) on a reach. The wind had just started to increase, and I measured it at generally between 8 and 10 knots just after I took this shot. The boat was getting a little squirrelly, and it rounded-up in an even stronger gust before I decided to switch to my working jib. When reaching, with a lot of tension in the sheet, there's more horizontal load on that pulpit than an asym would be likely to generate (unless you're wild enough to run it under "thrilling" conditions). You'd probably have to be even crazier than me to put more load on the pulpit than I do :-)

The reason I'm suggesting this here is that it allows greater flexibility than hanging the tack off the furled jib (such as with that device made by a company that goes by a 3-letter name). It would make it easier to switch from one sail to the other, especially allowing the asym to be rigged and hoisted while the jib is still in use. In fact, this would allow running both the asym and the working headsail simultaneously, with one of them poled-out. Or, possibly, they can work together as dual headsails on a reach, as I'm able to do with my sails.

So, while this arrangement requires a little DIY work, it's a project that wouldn't require a lot of skill, time, or expense, and it could add considerable flexibility in the use of the asym: more different ways to play!

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

Edited by - Lee Panza on 07/29/2019 21:40:04

Go Slo
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2019 : 05:31:04

These are all very helpful. Lee, I really like the pulpit with stay set up. Thank you very much for the photos.

"GO Slo" 1989 Catalina 25 SR/WK standard interior

ted
Deckhand

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Canada
21 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2019 : 12:17:05

Thx Lee, I'm going to do something like you have done.

Ted

Ted Ison

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2019 : 17:26:59

Let us know how it works out for you, Ted. In the meantime I'd be happy to answer questions, and if you come up with other ideas I'd be happy to offer my perspective.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2019 : 18:57:20

BTW, while I focused your attention at the bottom end of the system, keep in mind that it would be highly advisable to move the top end forward as well. Presumably you have a furler for your working headsail, and you won't want the new system to conflict with it. Fortunately, you can buy a bolt-on spinnaker crane that shifts the upper connection out ahead of the forestay. Although for this kind of setup it's not ideal to let the spinnaker block ride around the bail, this is an easy solution. I made my own spinnaker crane out of two pieces of stainless steel angle stock bolted to the masthead assembly.

You'll also need to figure how to route the new halyard if you're going to use a furler. You won't want the halyard running back down against the furled sail and the swivel, so it will need to be led aft to the mast and down (inside the mast, if you can). If you have four sheaves available in the masthead assembly you can run both halyards down inside the mast (as well as the main halyard and an adjustable topping lift on the aft pair). If you only have one forward sheave and one aft, or if your main halyard occupies two sheaves on one side and your jib halyard runs over the two on the other side, you'll need to add a lead block on the forward side of the mast to lead the new halyard down (it would be best to through-bolt it, rather than just relying on screws that may pull out in time). Better would be to reroute the jib halyard through an exit block just below the masthead assembly so it leads significantly aft at full hoist to prevent halyard wraps on the forestay; that would free-up a single sheave for the new asym halyard.

But here's why I said above that the conventional spinnaker crane is not ideal: the new halyard will be passing the forestay where it connects to the masthead assembly and on one tack or the other it could be bearing against the forestay terminal fitting or the forestay itself.

And, of course, you'll need some provision for securing the halyard. It would add a significant degree of control if you run it back to the cockpit, allowing you to draw it tighter as you begin to head up or slacken it as you bear off.

There are a few sketches and photos on my Smugmug pages that illustrate the things I worked out to address these issues:

https://panza.smugmug.com/MYSAILBOAT/The-Boat-Renovation/Mast-Modifications/

Yeah, there are a few more things to deal with, but the result is definitely worth it.

The trouble with a destination - any destination, really - is that it interrupts The Journey.

Lee Panza
SR/SK #2134
San Francisco Bay
(Brisbane, CA)

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