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 Gudgeon Problems		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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Digger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts
Initially Posted - 11/12/2018 :  12:30:13  Show Profile
I am looking for some wise counsel regarding the lower gudgeon on my ’83 Catalina 25. When I bought her one of the three screws holding it in place was missing. I sailed with two screws until I found an underwater tree with my rudder and broke a second screw. I used a 24” piece of stainless steel to go across the gudgeon and secured it with screws going into the transom as a temporary fix. The boat is on the hard now and I have tried to use a reverse drill bit and screw extractor with no success. I am reluctant to cut away the fiberglass inside the boat that covers the screws and whatever nuts are there but think that is the only thing to do. I am hoping one of you wise and more experienced folks have seen this problem before and can tell me what works.

Thank in advance!
Steve Digby
Steve Digby
1983 Catalina 25
Standard Rig
Fin Keel

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4012 Posts
Response Posted - 11/12/2018 :  13:35:29  Show Profile
Are you sure that on the inside the nuts are covered in fiberglass and not caulk? I think it might be old dry caulk you are looking at. The gudgeons are bolted on with machined phillips pan head or hex head screws. I've seen both used. On the inside there might be a threaded bronze backing plate that they screw into and then nuts. Some say they have the nuts and some say there is only the plate that the screws screw into . Mine had the nuts. You should be able to cut away any calking over the nuts if you have them to put a wrench on the nut. With the nut removed you will be able to unscrew the screw from the outside. To remove the broken bolt you will have to cut the caulking around the plate then from the outside use a punch to push the broken screw into the boat along with the plate.
A photo of my upper gudgeon
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5320 Posts
Response Posted - 11/12/2018 :  17:09:29  Show Profile
If your lower gudgeon’s nuts and bolts are not obvious, my recommendation is drill out the holes all the way through the transom, then redrill with a 3/4” or 1” drill bit. Tape the back and fill with thickened epoxy.
Once you have the holes filled and sanded, drill a 3/8” hole using the bolt pattern from the pintle plate.
Secure the gudgeons using the correct sized bolts backed up using a stainless steel backing plate.
Put lock washer on the bolts then tighten those suckers down for all they’re worth!
Put on some locktite for good measure.
Do the same for your upper gudgeons as well, and you’ll be a happy sailor
Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain — Milford, CT
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9047 Posts
Response Posted - 11/13/2018 :  09:38:12  Show Profile
My '85 (now Bruce's) had just a bronze plate with threaded holes on the inside of the transom. There were no nuts on the bolts. The plate might have been covered with fiberglass or at least some resin. From what you describe, I'd suggest chipping and cutting whatever is around the plate and then prying it off from the inside with the broken screw still in it. It might help to put a rod or heavy nail against the outside of the broken bolt and give it a little whack. Then I would make a new backing plate out of aluminum or starboard, drill three holes through it, and bolt the gudgeon on with washers and nylock nuts inside. Caulk everything as you assemble it. There is no coring in the transom layup (except there was some foam between it and the inner liner in mine, and that is not involved in this task), so over-drilling and filling with epoxy shouldn't be necessary.

Doing the same to the upper gudgeon is a little more of a project--you'll have to cut a hole in the cockpit liner and, when you're done, cover it with an inspection port as you see in Scott's picture above, which is a retro-fit job by another owner if not by Scott.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Digger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts
Response Posted - 11/14/2018 :  15:36:33  Show Profile
These are excellent suggestions. If I find a brass plate as described the job will probably be much simpler than I had imagined. Thanks to you Marine Consultants for so generously sharing your knowledge and expertise with so many people, including me!
Steve Digby
1983 Catalina 25
Standard Rig
Fin Keel
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4012 Posts
Response Posted - 11/14/2018 :  17:28:52  Show Profile
When you do the repair I'd highly suggest putting nylock nuts on the bolts. The bronze plate is not very thick so there are very few threads cut into it. It is a soft metal and can easily be striped. Adding the nuts if you don't have them makes for a secure, stronger fastening that won't get loose again over time.
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9047 Posts
Response Posted - 11/15/2018 :  07:09:16  Show Profile
Steve, let us know how it turns out. I, for one, like to know whether I've steered somebody onto the right course or up on the rocks. ("Master Marine Consultant", in my case, is a bit of hyperbole.)
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/15/2018 07:12:06
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Akenumber
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts
Response Posted - 11/15/2018 :  17:47:41  Show Profile
I agree with stinkpotter. You should be able to reach the lower gudgeon. This should not be much of an issue.
Ken
San Diego
84 C25 SR/FK 4116
The KRAKEN
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.