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Life Line Removal

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pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/28/2018 : 07:34:49

I'm giving serious consideration to removing my lifelines and stanchions. Wondering if anyone here has done that and what their experience was as a result.

Sailor Jerry
C-25 "Sea Song"
1978, SK, Std.
Pepin, WI

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2018 : 07:44:17

I don't think I ever saw a C25 with no lifelines, but the C22 racers remove them and don't seem to have any problems. Personally, I am more comfortable moving around the foredeck when they are there.

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2018 : 08:19:46

Hi Jerry,

When I bought my boat she had no lifelines or stanchions. I sailed her twice without them and felt very uncomfortable when going up on deck. In fact, twice I nearly lost my balance and went over the side. I have sense replaced them and feel a bit safer. Lifelines are not enough to keep you on board. But at least they provide a last chance to grab onto something if you should need to. If you really want to stay on the boat when going forward or up on deck, you need to install jack lines and wear a tether and harness made for the purpose. And as Dave says," One hand for the boat and one hand for safety." Good luck with your choice.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2018 : 11:59:46

I've thought about doing the same. Seems like I'm tripping on them half the time. If I do remove them, I plan on installing some extra hand holds and jack lines.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1761 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2018 : 14:45:05

Lifelines or no lifelines are just one part of the equation. If your non-skid is old and worn then the potential of going overboard is that much greater when the lifelines are removed. Maybe it's my relative age, but I would not feel secure removing them and especially with an older boat with less than aggressive non-skid decks.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5340 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2018 : 04:10:42

Spring comes late and winter early in WI. Water is colder more often than warmer there too.
If you always wear your PFD your chances for survival are very much improved.
Do you ever invite a friend or family to come with? Are they active crew members? Good to consider them too.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 06/29/2018 04:13:52

odonnellryanc
Navigator

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108 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2018 : 12:15:17

When we're thinking about going out in October or early season, I like to look at this chart: http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/coastal_communities/hypothermia

I ask myself, "Are we sure we can get them back into the boat in 30 minutes in these conditions?"

Even if you're not dead, "Unconsciousness" does not seem like the best state to be in.

I wouldn't remove them. Why are you thinking about doing so?

pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2018 : 13:03:20

Very good comments here.

The reason I raised the question was based on the following observations and considerations:

1. I've always considered lifelines an imperfect solution to the problem of keeping people on the boat. If you're sliding across the deck, they would likely be helpful in keeping you from sliding completely overboard, which is likely their greatest value.
2. If you're walking on the deck, they are not a reliable hand-hold, and they hit your leg at a height that is more likely to topple you into the water than allow you to recover from a unlucky stumble and stay at least partly on deck.
3. They are an obstacle to getting on and off the boat when you are approaching or leaving a dock. I should add that I consider this the most dangerous phase of sailing for crewmembers.
4. If you've ever done a man-overboard recovery, you probably also know they can complicate that process, particularly if you're winching the victim in with a block and tackle rig. (Probably not as big an issue with a C-25 as it is with a larger boat).

There are also problems with Jack-lines and tethers although I would not consider night sailing off-shore without them. For day sailing on inland waters, I consider them more a problem than a solution - but that's probably just my personal bias showing!

Probably important to add that I always wear a PFD, and any crew member that leaves the cockpit wears one too.

All this considered, the water temperature, age and worn non-skid issues are particularly valid concerns, so this is not a settled matter for me at this point.

Sailor Jerry
C-25 "Sea Song"
1978, SK, Std.
Pepin, WI

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1761 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2018 : 19:45:44

Jerry:

Good points raised. FWIW (and it may not be worth anything) I have had from time to time similar thoughts. I have had sailboats with no bow pulpit or lifelines, only a bow pulpit, and lifelines that only went to the cockpit with no stern pulpit. All had advantages and draw backs. As I keep my boat on a mooring boarding is a significant concern. With guests i always open the lifeline to make boarding easier. Having a gate is simple and important for convenience and safety -- and on our boats simple to install. As far as being a hand-hold when walking on deck, you are very correct in that they are not "reliable" -- but they are better than nothing. I tell everyone to look at where the cabin top mounted teak grips are, the mast, the standing rigging, and the lifeline and stanchions are, and if ANYTHING happens grab hold of whichever or any that you can! Any device that is connected to the boat and can be grabbed, in my opinion, is better than nothing. As much as I hate being confined, and while the decks on a C25 are less than ideal for moving about, at the end of the day having the lifelines, as awkward as they may be at times, is a margin safety that I have grown respect for.

Great thread and one that makes at least me think through safety!

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.