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new member moving up from Catalina 22

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jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2016 : 06:51:18

How about towing the boat on the newly refitted trailer 232 miles from Lake Hartwell SC to Charleston City Boatyard with my existing, paid for medium size SUV S15 GMC Jimmy, taking only state, us highways, local roads so as to not exceed 50 mph? All the roads are on the coastal plan side of the Appalachian Mountains, paralleling interstate highways. Flat land, low thru traffic, low speed required, etc, etc.
Now I am not discounting all the negative input posted about not using my current vehicle but I just want to get my boat to the water accessible to the ICW. I do not want to spend money on a different tow vehicle. Even renting a truck would coast $500. +, i could spend on the boat and the cruise. Is there just one person that could agree it is possible and advise me on how to safely do this?

Thanks, James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2016 : 08:23:14

I really wish I could offer you encouragement, but it would be wishful thinking. I towed my C25 with a Chev. 350 5.7 engine, 1/2 ton pu. I added air shocks to help carry the load, and a tranny cooler. Still, I felt I was working the truck fairly hard to maintain 50-60 mph on the expressway. I downshifted on hills, and turned on the hazard lights. I wouldn't even try it.

As it happens, James, I'm also 73. All my life I was careful to put some savings away to use in my old age. Well, old age is here, my friend, and it's time to spend a little of it for what makes us happy. That why we saved it. I'd spend the $500. or 950. to get the boat to your departure point, and forget about it. Look forward to a great adventure on your boat. If you try towing it with an suv that you know isn't up to the job, the likely result is that you'll break down on the road, and still have to rent a tow vehicle to transport it the rest of the way, not to mention having to either pay for expensive repairs to your suv, or give it away for it's salvage value.

I don't like to waste money either, but I'd consider it money well spent for an adventure of a lifetime.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/24/2016 08:24:08

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2016 : 18:53:53

Well said! Peace of mind is worth more than a few bucks. And as Steves point out, it might save you a few bucks. I'm 71, and have had it with stretching my luck.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/24/2016 18:56:31

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2016 : 18:59:04

I towed Pearl with a 2008 Grande Cherokee V-8 (I think it was 4.7liters, 32 valve, twin spark plug) with electronic sway control and big ventilated disc brakes. I was running about 90% of my towing weight and it was satisfactory. I limited my speed to about 62mph. I would never say "do it", but people tow some heavy packages very slowly. Underscore "slowly", braking is the biggest shortcoming if you accept the risk to your vehicle. I just bought an F-150 that is plenty adequate. The vehicles are different today. The quarter, half, and 3/4 ton classification has changed to light, medium, and heavy duty since even a light duty, 150 or 1500 series, can have 1700+ pound payload and 10,000 - 11,000 towing capacity with the right package. My ford is a 2.7L Ecoboost with a 7600 tow.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2016 : 20:22:39

Part of my "refit " of the trailer was electric brakes on the additional axle.I just cannot justify or afford buying a new or different vehicle just for one tow. So I can only think the "rent a truck" 16 to 24 ft van is the only viable option. I towed my C 22 over the Mnts from the Chesapeake Bay to Arkansas. The old Jimmy did it ok just a bit slow on the up hills. So I thought a 232 mile tow non interstates and on flat land was feasible. It seems the more informative specs to compare between a "new" F 150 ecobost 2.7 L would be its weight, HP and wheelbase compared to my "antique" GMC. Not to be argumentative but I just don't understand how new makes better. Or why a 1990 7.3 CI IDI desiel F350 with 185 HP makes a "good" C25 tow vehicle? Is it weight, wheel base, HP or ?
Thanks, James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

dasreboot
Admiral

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804 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2016 : 03:16:03

quote:
Originally posted by jmczzz

Or why a 1990 7.3 CI IDI desiel F350 with 185 HP makes a "good" C25 tow vehicle? Is it weight, wheel base, HP or ?
Thanks, James

Weight and heavier components for the towing. Weight so it wont be pushed around by the boat. Heaviar components so they wont break.That said, You can discount power or torque. Getting it moving is not usually the issue. maintaining highway speeds wont be a problem for you. Making sure the big boat does not push you all over the highway might be. Make sure your trailer brakes are good!

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2016 : 07:25:18

I'd guess that the main difference, as far as the engine is concerned, is the difference in engine torque. The Jimmy engine is rated at 260 lb.-ft. @ 2800 RPM, while the 1990 7.3 CI IDI diesel F350 is rated at 338 lb.-ft. @ 1400 RPM. As I understand it, that means the diesel is applying considerably more power to the rear wheels, at lower rpm, in any given gear. The Jimmy engine doesn't apply as much power to the rear wheels, but to apply as much as it is capable of, it has to run at a much higher rpm.

The C22 and trailer, including gear, probably weigh about 35-3600 lbs. The C25 and trailer, with gear, probably weigh about 6500 lbs., nearly double the weight. If hills challenged your Jimmy with the C22, it will be a challenge for it to tow the C25 even on level ground, and even a slight grade will push it to the limit of it's ability. Moreover, the transmission just isn't designed to pull such a load. It will likely overheat, even on flat roads, because the loads on the transmission are unceasing. What's the cost of a new or rebuilt transmission? Even if the terrain is generally flat, there are bound to be some hills, and it won't take much of a hill to stymie the Jimmy. Usually there's a downhill grade when you cross a river, and an uphill grade on the other side. If you can't get up that next hill, what then? I found a steep hill with a winding road up it near my home once, and couldn't make it to the top with my Chev. 5.7 V-8 truck, and had to back the rig down the hill and around those curves, and it was a nightmare. On another occasion, a traffic light turned red at the worst possible time, on a rain wetted road, and I locked up the brakes and the whole rig slid through the red light, with my horn blaring to warn motorists at the intersection. You shouldn't underestimate the difficulty of towing a C25. You'll love sailing it, but not so much towing it.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2016 : 07:51:27

Hi Again James,

I own a 2000 Chevy Blazer, (S10 size). I researched the towing capacity and it says 5000-6000 lbs depending on which rear end ratio you happen to have. So I took it over to Uhaul and had them install a class 3 hitch. Just to be clear here. My intention was not to tow it down the road, but merely to be able to move it around the storage yard where she now resides. Mostly back and forth to the wash bay that is on site. Well, I backed it up to the trailer, lowered it down onto the ball. Locked it down then started cranking up the trailer tongue jack. The trailer tongue kept getting lower and lower as well as the rear end of my blazer until finally, the jack could not lower any further. And it still was not low enough that the blazer was supporting the trailer. I would not have been able to get its jack up out of the way. Now, yes there are leaf spring add on kits that can increase the towing capacity by 1000 lbs. But I was already out $300 bucks for the tow hitch. (Wish I had that back). So, I lowered the jack once again, taking the weight off of my poor blazer and have never tried that again. And won't.
Again, The 1500 GMC I rented from Uhaul did a great job for me. There's no need to tell them what you want it for. Not telling you that you should lie. You are simply a customer who wants to rent a truck. Best of luck.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2016 : 09:46:20

I have experienced some of these same problems with various tows and trailers so I don't want to relive any of them trying to tow my C 25.
I am a little confused by Bladswell's. "The 1500 GMC I rented from Uhaul did a great job for me.". Isn't that a regular size / duty pick up like the " and couldn't make it to the top with my Chev. 5.7 V-8 truck," Steve Milby comments about above?
Please don't get me wrong I am not casting doubt on the validity of anyone's comments just trying to make sure I know what I need.
I am spending about $800 getting my trailer beefed up with extra channel welded in on both sides front to back, adding a 3500 lb axle to make it tandem, mods to the keel support, and moving the bow chock to make it 13 1/2 feet from the center of the tandem axles.
I am willing to do what is necessary tow wise to have a no problem move of the C-25. Budget rents a 16' moving van w/ 2" ball hitch, for around $450, or a 24' for $520 each 4 days no mile charge.
I am beginning to think that one of these is my best choice. And go ahead and bring the C 25 the 706 miles home to get her ready.
thanks, James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Edited by - jmczzz on 03/25/2016 09:49:26

Bladeswell
Captain

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USA
490 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2016 : 09:59:49

Hi James,

Yes, the GMC 1500 is the same as a chevy Silverado 1500, a Ford F150 or a dodge Ram 1500. all considered light duty or in the old days, a half ton.. You would certainly not want to make due with less and more is always better. I'm only saying from experience that the 1500 variety is enough. Your choices from Budget will do just fine, being bigger. and really not much more in cost. Let us know how it goes.

Bladeswell

C25 TR FK Hull #973 1979 L-Dinette. So.Cal.

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2016 : 14:54:21

Wheelbase is a major factor. The longer the wheelbase, the better the vehicle resists the levering force of the trailer trying to push the rear end out of line, causing oscillation or even a jacknife. The length of the trailer tongue forward of the axles is that lever, and it's pretty long for the C25. "Towing capacity" might not take this into consideration. But an F150 wheelbase might be 50% longer than a Jimmy (?)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/25/2016 15:03:18

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2016 : 15:50:18

Thanks to all for your input, I think I have a good grasp of my situation and will use the 24 ft van from Budget. I do not want to have a problem thru The Atlanta madhouse or the confusing route thru Birmingham. I will take the trailer over to the boat as soon as it is ready with the Jimmy and get the boat out of the water loaded on it. The old Jimmy in low range 4 wd pulls like a tractor. One problem may be the depth of the ramp. I have used the "40 ft chain w/ trailer unhooked" from the Jimmy several times loading my C 22 at shallow ramps so I am prepared to do that if necessary. I will also rig / weld on a trailer jack that will hold a heavy duty wheel to pull the boat on trailer up the ramp to get it hooked up if necessary. I recall once seeing someone had made a device to do that for I think a 25 or 27. Does anyone have knowledge of what that wobble dicky wheel set up looked like?
Thanks , James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Edited by - jmczzz on 03/25/2016 15:51:20

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2016 : 17:46:01

Sounds like a serious plan. There have been some posts about a spare tire/hub carrier that can be inverted to provide a ground wheel. Hopefully sobs who has one will chime in.

PS: F150 2.7 with 145" wb, 325HP at 5750 rpm. 375 ft/lb @ 3000rpm.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2016 : 17:59:14

wow! is this a race truck? I guess ecobost means a turbo? 326hp (jeeze) and 5750 rpm was above the red line in a 55 Ford V8. (my high school ride) lol
The inverted spare idea is clever but it would have to be pretty well made and hooked on to be strong enough.
James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2016 : 21:20:22

Twin turbos, and that is the little ecoboost engine. Runs on regular but premium is recommended for towing. The sweet part is that the torque peak is 1000 rpm lower than my old jeep, of course it's still a 1000 higher than a typical diesel

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

jmczzz
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2016 : 15:45:06

Here are pics (as soon as I read how to post) of the finished refitted trailer. it started as a $300 old style Mc 25 trailer rated at 3400 lbs with 1 3500 lbs axle. It was hauling junk on a plywood floor. I had refitted it a few years ago to carry my C 22 and just completed the second refit to carry my new to me C 25 SK. Converted it to tandem axle by moving old axle back, adding a new 3500 lbs axle w/electric brakes, hangers, springs etc, Wielded 4" C channel from front to back down both sides, added 4 ft to rear. added a cross member, built new adjustable bunks w/ uni-strut, 4 new tires. Heading to Lake Hartwell SC (711 miles) this week end to load the boat. Plan is to check tow it on the state highway (don't worry, all you guys that gave me input). I think I will go rent a large budget truck or buy the 2 1/2 ton ex U-haul Ford 6.2 IDI diesel. I saw on a used lot. (the
C 22 forum let me in line insert pics, this one does not seem to have that handle) i'll get them on asap. James
https://www.catalina-capri-25s.net/_nav/MBRIcons/Icon_LinkGo.png
this didn't work, when i click on the image link i didn't see anything so i just copied and then pasted but this isn't my pic, I'll try something else, or maybe some one will tell me how to do this? READ IT ALL... oh well I don't understand, i click the image code button nothing happenS? so no go, jmc

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Edited by - jmczzz on 04/22/2016 02:35:14

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2016 : 19:16:04

Hi James -

I have a 1984 C25 SK that came with a trailer that was built for the boat by Sea Lion Trailers in NJ. The PO owns the company so he may have some notes on the dimensions of this trailer. It is a dual axles, brakes on both axles, Galvanized frame, rollers. He towed it to CT with a F350 without a problem. I have not towed it far since I bought it, 10 miles, twice a year. His name is Lou, I can get you his e-mail if you are interested in talking to him.

Welcome aboard !

Brian & JoAnne Gleissner
Knot So Fast
1984 Catalina 25, SR/SK
Traditional Interior
Lake Candlewood, CT

jmczzz
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2016 : 20:02:34

yes I would like to contact him, could you send me an email with contact info? my email is on the clickable send email on my id info, jmczzz. thank you, James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Edited by - jmczzz on 04/21/2016 20:08:11

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2016 : 20:44:56

The

in the Format bar inserts [ img ] and [ /img ] into your post (without the spaces). You can copy the URL for a compatible picture on the web--in Shutterfly, our gallery, or whatever--and paste it between the ] and the [. That's how I inserted the

in this post.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/21/2016 20:48:20

jmczzz
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2016 : 02:14:12

Dave, That sounds simple, but how do I get to the format bar? (edit)

a bit clumsy but that worked, thanks James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Edited by - jmczzz on 04/22/2016 02:32:35

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2016 : 02:51:35

In Lake Hartwell S C: New to me boat, got her out of the lake and loaded on it's trailer. No boat lift there so we had to push the trailer hooked to a chain into deeper water and float the boat on then pull the trailer w / boat out with the chain hooked to truck. M y buddy and I went into and under water to get the boat on trailer straight. It went well until the trailer jack wheel ran into a hole on the ramp and bent into a v shape. No stopping at the point so just kept dragging it up until clear of water and jacked tongue up and cut of jack wheel leg with a torch.
Not much fun but she is on the trailer now parked in the storage lot waiting on tow truck.

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Edited by - jmczzz on 04/30/2016 03:04:53

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2016 : 03:50:54

Created new problem with loading boat to trailer (see above).
The process of tightening down the straps on the bow without seeing what was happening caused the bunk supports welded to the v shaped cross member to twist.

I have thought of several ways to bring them back straight, but would like input. Any suggestions on how to get them pulled back up straight?
thanks, James

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

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