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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Ullman Main: CD or Loft

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/30/2015 : 09:31:29

So I've been shopping and looking around for a while trying to decide where to get a new mains'l from. Based on other's experiences with support and quality Ullman is up on the top of my list. We have a local Ullman loft in town here and I am planning to go in to talk to them about a new sail but before I did that wanted to see any other experiences here on the forum. I am looking at the offshore 2+2 from CD.

Do you think it could be more expensive to have the loft do it rather than order from CD?
Would they support the product sold on CD?
Is there any advantages from either?

I am thinking I could avoid the shipping cost from California if I get it in town.

Thanks,
Rob

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2015 : 09:35:37

bought a new uhlman full batten main on ebay. Like it alot. well made. I like haviing 2 reefs, and this had only one. The annapolis loft did it inexpensively and quick.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3320 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2015 : 10:14:06

Do you cruise or race? Or both? If you cruise any loft can build you a decent sail. If you race, Bartlette Sails in Austin builds the best dacron racing sail - you get a much bigger roach (which is Class Legal) and it increases the boat speed remarkably - just ask Chuck Shaw on "Confetti".

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2015 : 11:05:19

I've got a dacron racing main from Bartlett also. Performs well!

1989 C-25 TR/WK #5894
Miss Behavin'
Sittin' in LCYC on Canyon Lake, Texas

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2015 : 04:03:09

I purchased the Ullman sail from CD when they were on sale. It is full batten, loose foot with double reef. I am quite pleased with it. Boat is standard rig.

1988 WK/SR w/inboard diesel Joe Pool Lake
Hobie 18 Lake Worth

Life is not a dress rehearsal. You will not get another chance.

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1757 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2015 : 05:05:54

FWIW -- I bought my Ullman from Ullman/Ventura loft -- Gary supplied sails to Catalina Yachts and CD and is probably the most knowledgable about our boats. Excellent service even for someone like me shipping cross country -- and highly competitive pricing. A phone or e-mail chat with him will provide a wealth of knowledge.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9047 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2015 : 05:12:13

quote:
Originally posted by DavidBuoy

Do you think it could be more expensive to have the loft do it rather than order from CD?... I am thinking I could avoid the shipping cost from California if I get it in town.

Why not just get a proposal from each, with all costs including shipping? Then compare the bottom-line numbers. Let each know the other option(s) you're considering, and let them explain why theirs is best. It might lead you to select other than the lowest number. (...or it might get you a lower number.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/31/2015 05:18:55

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5882 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2015 : 08:44:15

I would ask the local sailmaker what services he offers to local purchasers. Some will sail with you and show you how to use your new sail. That could be useful. You'll have a chance to ask questions of a knowledgeable sailmaker, learn how to fold the sail and bag it, and he will have a chance to see it on your boat, and if anything doesn't fit perfectly, he can correct it.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2015 : 21:18:17

Catalina Direct pricing is generally high and they do not like to stand behind their products or service. I've started only ordering from them if I don't know where to find a part elsewhere. So I've only placed four or five orders with them, but the first two were screwed up.

On one order, they sent me an obviously bent stanchion. Before agreeing to let me return it, they wanted pictures of the stanchion and shipping box to "investigate" despite me telling them the box was fine. They weren't pleased when they couldn't blame the shipper.

On another order, they forgot to pack a keel turning ball. They demanded I recheck the box carefully before agreeing to send me one. They weren't happy about sending me the missing part.

That being said, someone else may really like the convenience of ordering from them. Someone else may have had better experiences. I think the fact that they exist helps the value of our boats.

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

Edited by - sethp001 on 07/31/2015 21:18:52

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9047 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2015 : 07:13:11

quote:
Originally posted by sethp001

...That being said, someone else may really like the convenience of ordering from them. Someone else may have had better experiences.

That'd be me (although not within the past seven years).

quote:
I think the fact that they exist helps the value of our boats.

Definitely. Very few 30+ year-old boats have that kind of resource.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2015 : 21:08:49

CD is a valuable resource and I sometimes use them, but it was much cheaper to have a local rigger make a keel cable than buy theirs. When I got my portlight reseal kit, they substituted 5200 for the frame bedding; I used polysulfide and used the 5200 to seal the gap between the coachroof and liner moldings that was maintained with scraps of plywood instead of a plywood core.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2015 : 09:31:11

quote:
Originally posted by Derek Crawford

If you race, Bartlette Sails in Austin builds the best dacron racing sail - you get a much bigger roach (which is Class Legal) and it increases the boat speed remarkably - just ask Chuck Shaw on "Confetti".

Hiya Derek!!!

I have been off the list for a while, but now I am back!! (Should NEVER let myself get too busy to be on this great list!!!) And YES! I am sold on Bartlett sails! I proudly use a main, a light air 155, and a 110 I bought from Derek that he had used on TSU (a moment of silence in remembrance of TSU please). They are well made sails and I recommend them for anyone that wants to make their boat go fast!

I do still have to change the numbers on the sails, but I think of TSU and Derek when I see them, so I am not in any hurry!!

Cheers!!,

Chuck

PS: Derek, Tom Curran tells me he picked up a nice sail for his Cat 22 from you??? He does not need ANY help like that!!!!!!!! <grin>

Chuck Shaw
Confetti
Cat 25, hull#1
1976 FK/TR

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2015 : 15:16:56

Local loft may just point you to Catalina Direct, that is what the local Ullman loft did when I called them. They said they couldn't compete on price.

A local loft will measure your rig and would be able to customize the sail (for instance shortening the luff if you wanted a bimini or increasing the roach if you wanted increased light air performance).

Either way the sail is going to be made overseas and so I wouldn't expect a difference in quality. A lot of Ullman sails used to be made by China Sail Loft, which tons of lofts use to manufacture sails. I don't know if that is still the case.

I had my Catalina 25 main made by a local loft (Ballard Sails) and was very happy going that route. They've since made sails for my new boat.

Alex W
Seattle, WA
Express 37 "re-Quest"
previously owned 1984 Catalina 25 "Lutra"

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3320 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2015 : 10:28:16

Hi Chuck,
Glad to see you back on the Forum. When Tom ought the C22 sail from me we talked about what your reaction would be! Is he giving you a hard time on the race course?

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2015 : 16:59:16

quote:
Originally posted by Derek Crawford

When Tom ought the C22 sail from me we talked about what your reaction would be! Is he giving you a hard time on the race course?

Not yet, but its because he is recovering from Rotator Cuff surgery. He's doing well and will be ready soon! Did you decide not to race the 22 or you just sell the jib to get me excited??? <grin>. Hope you are doing well!!!

Chuck

Chuck Shaw
Confetti
Cat 25, hull#1
1976 FK/TR

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3320 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2015 : 11:21:39

Chuck,
we were not using the boat very much either to cruise or race (it was slower than molasses in January and totally non-competitive which took all the fun out of racing). Our hoist had developed major problems and was unusable, so we had 3 alternatives: buy a new hoist, do a bottom job so we could keep it in the water or dry sail it which meant buying a tow vehicle! The marina fees had gone up and made it economically unfeasible - so we sold it.
I miss the competition but still sometimes help out the race committee.

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4299 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2015 : 12:23:21

quote:
Originally posted by Derek Crawford

Chuck,
we were not using the boat very much either to cruise or race (it was slower than molasses in January and totally non-competitive which took all the fun out of racing). Our hoist had developed major problems and was unusable, so we had 3 alternatives: buy a new hoist, do a bottom job so we could keep it in the water or dry sail it which meant buying a tow vehicle! The marina fees had gone up and made it economically unfeasible - so we sold it.
I miss the competition but still sometimes help out the race committee.

I was at the lake a couple of weeks ago and noticed they've replaced almost the whole finger pier you were on with new covered slips. They were also pushing another new section around to the North side of the marina. Looks like the stinkpotters are slowly but surely taking over.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2015 : 13:28:50

quote:
Originally posted by Derek Crawford

Chuck,
we were not using the boat very much either to cruise or race The marina fees had gone up and made it economically unfeasible - so we sold it.
I miss the competition but still sometimes help out the race committee.

Well Shucks!!!!!! I bet you have no problem finding rides if you want however!!!

We have a new boat in the fleet here, a Santana 20 sailed by a very good sailor. Between him, Tom, and the Oday 32 (my arch enemy competitor - and close friend!), and a VERY well sailed Columbia 23, they keep me on my toes!!!! I switched us to Portsmouth Numbers for handicapping, and I also maintain a "Club Handicap" also based on Portsmouth but adjusted to allow less skilled sailors to still do well in the standing without allowing it to become a giveaway program. Makes it pretty hard for me to sail Confetti to her Club Handicap, but sure keeps us on our toes!!!

Cheers!

Chuck

Chuck Shaw
Confetti
Cat 25, hull#1
1976 FK/TR

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3320 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2015 : 09:45:33

GaryB,
Yes indeed. The marina is definitely becoming more stinkboat oriented. They prefer them over sailboats because they buy a lot more marina gas. A few years ago the yacht club was 65/35 sail/power, now it is probably 75/25 power/sail. The worst part is that, during the Summer, the lake is like a washing machine from all their wakes. We used to look forward to after Labor day when things calmed down.

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

NautiC25
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2015 : 10:33:48

Derek, come to the dark side!!!

lol

Right now the wait list is short, and you know we would welcome you with open arms over here. There have been several members wondering where you went. :(

1989 C-25 TR/WK #5894
Miss Behavin'
Sittin' in LCYC on Canyon Lake, Texas

Edited by - NautiC25 on 08/17/2015 10:34:35

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