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jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/19/2015 : 05:29:40

Morning
Raised the jib on the roller furling the other day. Had to get a rigger up the mast to replace the halyard.
The jib is attached to the shackle on the CDI furler.
When I was walking down the dock, I noticed that the head of the sail is about 2-3 feet below the top of the track.
Since the boat is new to me and the PO is 'unavailable', i'm not even sure if the sail is made for the '25'.
My question is - how far up the track should I raise the sail. I can put a line from the shackle to the tack, but i'm not sure if I should have the sail all the way to the top of the track or just bring it up a foot or so?
I was wondering how different heights would affect the sailing.
Any thoughts would be great.
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 05:57:50

Jay,
Good question. On Passage the genoa came with a short piece of SS cable that appeared to go from the sail head to the furler shackle. When I set it up that way 1st time, the foot laid all over the lifelines when unfurled and I did not like the way it looked, and it made the sheet catch on the stanchions.
So I eliminated the wire, connected the head to the shackle and made a line from the tack to the furler base that was about 12"/30cm long. That allowed me to get the sail up a little higher off the lifelines and the foredeck and I've done it that way ever since. The only negative I can think of is there's slightly more heeling force because the center of effort is slightly farther up the mast - further out on the lever handle if you will...
That arrangement also provides me better foreward visibility - I can just peer under the genny from the cockpit. There's a slot under the jib. For me higher is better but go figure.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 06:48:59

hi Bruce
I was thinking along the same lines. I'll move the upper attachment point (shorten the halyard) by some amount less than what the space looks like from the dock; raise it until the metal end gets to the bottom of the track and then tie in a line from the furler to the tack. Just have to be careful about both lengths.
Definately don't want to cut the halyard too short. It cost too much to buy and install.
I don't go up the mast and the install was ~150.
Measure FOUR times and cut once.
I understand about the heeling moment and I understand the '25' has issues with this.
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

rdthoms
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 13:55:52

I have basically the same question but I have hank on jib. With my 155% Genoa the luff length is the same as the forestay length and thus runs all the way top to bottom. With my 100% jib tacked to the shackle the head comes up a couple of feet short (just like the photo shown on the C25 page of sailboat data: http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=407). When running the jib I'm considering using a line from tack to shackle to get it up off the deck (and give more visibility). I understand this will give more heeling moment but will this cause any other problems? Maybe strange stress on the forestay since it takes everything then rather than the tack being hard attached to the shackle/chainplate?

Richard
Huntsville, AL
1984 Catalina 25 SR/FK #4309

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 15:18:31

Richard, no other issues, that's what I did with our two jibs, just like Bruce described. Ours were hank ons. I do the same with my two jibs on our current boat, up off the deck on a furler.

Stu
1986 C34 #224 "Aquavite"
Cowichan Bay, BC Maple Bay Marina
(formerly San Francisco)
(formerly C25 #2459 "Capricorn Two")

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 20:00:05

if you put the cable on the bottom (tack to furler drum), it will allow the sail to go to full hoist. This will change the angle of the halyard at full hoist and eliminate halyard wraps. If you have any significant length of halyard showing, it will wrap and ruin your day.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

dasreboot
Admiral

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803 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 20:06:52

Oops, wrong. Goes between sail and top spinner on furler. Object is the same. Grt the top spiner on the furler as close to the halyard exit point as possible

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2015 : 13:08:17

CDI do not have halyard wrap, the halyard is internal to the foil, it does not use the boat halyard.
The smaller the LP the shorter the hoist unless it is built to a custom spec, my 135 was full hoist by my spec.

Frank Hopper

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9075 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2015 : 20:56:11

quote:
Originally posted by pastmember

CDI do not have halyard wrap, the halyard is internal to the foil, it does not use the boat halyard.

Correct for a CDI. But for other furlers, the important thing to eliminate halyard wraps, which can ruin a forestay, is the angle of the halyard off the swivel at full hoist. It should not be parallel to the forestay--it should pull more toward the mast to prevent the upper part of the swivel from turning. For that purpose, a "restraining block" is often attached to the front of the mast, and the halyard passes down through it and then out to the swivel, at just enough of an downward angle to pull the sail to full hoist. This is one reason why roller-furling sails are generally made with luff-lengths shorter than the forestay--so the halyard can be routed through the restraining block.

But again, this has nothing to do with CDI--just (potentially) everything else.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2015 : 09:39:10

Since we're talking about CDI furlers...
I don't have any cleats on the sides of my FF4 like Frank has in his photo, only one shackle at the top of the drum. The owners manual shows two shackles and there are two lines to tie off. Apparently there were design changes over the years. Has anyone added cleats to the shaft above the drum? There are a pair of shallow holes on each side but I hesitate to drill or screw anything into a critical part like this. So far I'm kind of missing my old Harken furler, I never had any problem with halyard wraps.
Thanks, Craig.

'90 SR/WK #6017. PO of '79 SR/SK.

jaydon
Navigator

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USA
156 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2015 : 12:13:28

There are two holes for two pins and shackles on mine. Same as the picture in Craigs post.
One shackle is for the tack and the other is for the halyard.That way both are attached to the furller and no wrap.
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2015 : 12:31:23

There are two other holes in the top of my drum, but neither is the type that would allow for another pin and shackle. One 'slot' I used to tie off the furling line in the drum per the manual instructions. What I was wondering was did the furler in Frank's photo come with the cleats or did he add those on later with screws or through bolting with machine screws?
Craig.

'90 SR/WK #6017. PO of '79 SR/SK.

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