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smosh
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/28/2015 : 17:32:52

Hi all - I'm planning a 2-3 day sail to bring my new-to-me boat down to Portland (Maine.) from Penobscot Bay. Hitting a weather window is iffy, so we will probably will be doing a lot of motoring/auxiliary. What kind of speeds are people getting from motoring, and what kind of fuel consumption? I've an 8hp four cycle Honda outboard.

Have to figure out how much fuel to bring and roughly how quickly we can make it.

Thanks!

1979 C25 - Hull #1000

Currently "Phoebe"

WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2015 : 20:02:14

I motored mine from Key West to Everglade City with a Merc 9.9 4 stroke. It took 14 hours running at 3/4 throttle. I used 9 gals of gas. That pushed me about 5 knots all the way. Hope that helps. (very calm day no wind)

Wesley Allen
"Breaking Wind"
1982 C-25 SR/TR/SK #2773
Hemlock, MI

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2015 : 20:12:59

A 3 gallon tank for your 8 hp 4 stroke Honda running at about 3/8 throttle will provide fuel for about 6 hours. At 3/8 throttle it should push the boat at around 5 kn discounting currents and winds. Minimum reserve fuel should be at least 50%. Consider using ethanol free gas. Err, for the entire trip, on the side of safety including fuel. Have a great trip

Henk & Johanna
"Floating", a few off your "barnacles".
"Someday Lady" '95 C250WB #151 ('03 - 2016)
"Sea ya" 30ft Bayliner (04-2018 - 09-2018)
"Mariah" '96 C250WB #191 (05-2019 - 15-05-2023)
"Lady J" '00 C250WK #499 (05-2021 - 09-2022)

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2015 : 21:20:44

I'm not sure I got quite the mileage Henk describes... With my 2003 high-thrust Honda 8, it seemed that at around half throttle I got 5 knots at a little over half a gallon per hour, but that's a recollection--"Voyager" Bruce Ross has owned the boat for the past five years or so, and might update my memory...

Trying to go faster than about 5.5 knots is a waste of fuel. Your theoretical limit under power is 6.3, but at that speed under power the stern is squatting so you're drawing more wake, the keel is dragging, an the boat can't go any faster without climbing over its bow wave. So that last 3/8 of throttle is not very helpful except maybe for pushing against a strong wind and steep chop. (Currents hurt or help your speed over the bottom, but not your efficiency moving through the water.)

You're right to plan for motoring--virtually all coastal cruising sailors I know will admit they cruise under power at least 75% of the time--including with sails up, which, if for nothing else, steadies the ride. That's why you see yellow gerry-cans (for diesel) on the decks of passage-makers. Sailing is fun, but Murphy keeps making it a challenge to get where you want to go before dark.

You're looking at what--a little over 100 miles? Two days is doable, but I'll call it a bit grueling. For your first trip, it's nice to plan stops in daylight and relaxing for dinner. Three days is more reasonable, but that's three reasonably good days. Keep your calendar open for four, so you're not under pressure to be out there when you shouldn't be. I speak from experience from about a 90 mile trip taking our new-to-us boat home on Long Island Sound where the weather went south toward the end.

Have a great trip! And welcome to the group--keep in touch!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/28/2015 21:41:54

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2015 : 03:44:13

I agree with Dave's recommendation to spread the trip over 3-4 days. Theoretically, you can drive the boat at 5 kts per hour for ten hours a day and make it, but the theory breaks down after you bake in the hot sun for 10 hours a day for 2 days. The boat and motor are probably up to the trip, but it's hard on a sailor. I wear long sleeved tech shirts and long convertible pants with removable lower legs, and a wide brimmed hat, and slather sunscreen on the face, neck and ears, and drink plenty of liquids. If you have to make a long trip, take an extra day or two and enjoy the trip, along with some good restaurants. Leave early in the morning each day and cover as much distance as you can in the cooler hours.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2015 : 06:52:07

I'll just add that when we took trips in our C25 we used two fuel tanks. A six gallon in the fuel compartment and the stock Tohatsu three gallon tank. Quick connect fittings were fitted to both tanks. When the main tank gets low or runs out of fuel, you can quickly change to the full tank without drama. Especially helpful if you have wave action that would make transferring fuel difficult.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2015 : 13:15:31

If you have a 6 gallon main tank and a 3 gallon reserve, and you travel ~30 miles (~6 hours) each day, motoring the whole time, and refill the 6 each night, you shouldn't need to touch the reserve. (Figure about 7.5 mpg.)

And who knows--you might get to do some sailing!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2015 : 19:34:10

I have to interject here because you can very accurately predict you progress using a technique I call reverse dead reckoning. I check the date and time of my passage and check the tidal currents at those times. Assume that you come out of the harbor at dead low tide and you make your right turn SW while the current is building. Say you can do 4.5 kts plus you have a 1kt favorable current in the first hour, you can go 5.5 nm in one hour. Then in hour 2, you get 1.5kt current, you've made 6 nm. In hour 3 you may get 2kts, so you've gone 6.5. Same for the next 3 hours, adding it all up you've gone 30 nm in 6 hours. Now you're going against the current for 2-3 more hours. Subtracting current, you've gone 4.5 nm at slack in hour 7, 4.0 nm hour 8 and 3.5 nm in hour 9. Adding it up you've gone 42 miles on day 1.
If however you were running against the tide, you'd get as few as 36 nm.
Now add weather. You may have to ditch into port in a worst case, or you might get a huge blow that will push you more quickly.
One morning I caught the incoming Long Island Sound tide. At one point my GPS registered 8 kts! My paddle wheel knotmeter read 5.5, so I had 2.5 kts of current. I did Mystic to Stratford or almost 65 nm in 10 hours.
As others have said, you never know what progress you will make but if you have good weather and a favorable current and timing, you can make good progress.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2015 : 07:46:42

Indeed, currents can make a difference. I gather that they run up to 1.5 - 2 knots along the Maine coast, NE in flood tides, and SW in ebbs. Pick just the right day and time, and you could have a helping current for about six hours (slack-to-slack). There are various current tables on-line, or you can buy the yellow Eldridge Tide & Pilot book.

Sailors are careful when passing through my neck of the woods (The Race)--they can be helped or hurt by up to 3.5 knots. In another part of Long Island Sound (Long Sand Shoal by the CT River), you can gain a knot (20%) over 8-10 miles by choosing to go inside our outside of the shoal, depending on the tide. Eldridge is about the only way to see that.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/30/2015 08:01:00

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2015 : 17:33:50

Navionics charting as well as Maptech online charts show realtime currents tight on the charts. They show speed and direction of the currents. While this an approximation, you can add 1 hour per day to the current speeds and plot a course.

Example: say my trip begins Saturday and today is Wednesday and I want to plan my trip. If slack is at 0600 on Wednesday, then slack will be ~0900 on Saturday - but you could add 15-20 minutes ...

An old school way of figuring currents is by using NOAA's tidesandcurrents website. Find your sailing area, check the current predictions (not tide) for your travel dates, find the place names on the charts (e.g.: 3 nm SE Winkle's Point or where the h@$k is that?) and then do your reverse dead reckoning.

I use the current predictions and a paper chart to plan my course. Navionics will also allow you to create a predicted log right on the screen. Old skool or new - you should always do trip planning before you go out.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2015 : 18:12:37

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

...you should always do trip planning before you go out.

Yup. Even when having an evening "sail to nowhere", I would check the tides so we might be able to sail out up-current and return down-current. On 30+ mile legs to somewhere, it makes a difference. On my current boat, it no longer matters... but once upon a time it did!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

smosh
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2015 : 19:32:46

thanks, everyone! The weather has been pretty cruddy the past week, so it looks like we're going to tackle all or part of this journey over the next few days. Driving up early afternoon tomorrow, go over the boat and make a punch list. Maybe a quick sail. Head to Hamilton Marine for anything we need (battens come to mind!) Eat dinner, have a few beers, sleep. Wednesday morning up bright and early to take off. Wednesday's forecasted to have 5-10 mph North winds...perfect for that initial leg. I will have to check the tides/currents, though!

Make it as far as we can Wednesday, decide whether we want to press on Thursday or head home via car. Not sure if we can sail Thursday yet.

Wednesday looks to be mostly cloudy high of 61. Not too worried about too much sun!

1979 C25 - Hull #1000

Currently "Phoebe"

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2015 : 06:46:26

Geez - wouldn't you know it. Smosh posted this on Monday and I didn't notice it until this morning. If everything webt according to plan, they're out on the water now.
I just checked the currents at 0900 Wed local Maine time and the current in the Gulf of Maine is 2 hours in and opposing. Slack must've been around 0730.
The good news is if they're sailing out of a deeper/longer harbor (as most ME harbors tend to be) current flow is still outward/seaward and so is favorable at the moment.
Perhaps as they reach the mouth of the bay and out into open water, they'll have only 2 hours of strong opposing current left until the next slack around 1330 (1:30pm).
Throughout the afternoon and early evening they'll have a favorable current. Sunset locally in ME is after 8:00pm 2000, so if they are on a favorable current this afternoon they can make good progress til 6:30pm before they'd have to find a mooring or slip.

Edit: winds should be light but favorable today <10kt, then tomorrow Thursday clear, mid 60s with building S winds around 10. Thursday night 40s with patchy fog. Friday sunny high 60s winds S 10-13. Pretty good. Sounds like a fun trip!

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 06/03/2015 06:58:30

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2015 : 14:00:33

Then sometimes you wake up in the morning and just want a coffee and some down time.

It took us Fri,Sat,Sun & Monday to go from Stuart Florida down to Fort Lauderdale in the ditch.
Marina Friday night, Anchorage Saturday night, Lake Boca Anchorage Sunday night.

It was the bridges that slowed our rate.

(on our C34 - Eximius

)

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2015 : 14:08:14

Paul,
You're right - sometimes it's nice to just chill and spend the extra time. Your new ride with all that extra space must have been very nice!
Chill indeed though, the temps at night will be down there in the 40s. June nights in Maine can be chilly - hope they have a heater.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

smosh
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2015 : 05:40:12

Hey everyone - finally have a few minutes to update. We had a great trip - weather was chilly, but winds were light and favorable. Left Belfast harbor about 11am Wednesday in almost no wind. High tide would be around noon, so we figured the current would help us on the ~20 miles out of the bay. Motored out of the harbor and for a bit into Penobscot Bay. When the wind picked up, we raised the sails and motor sailed for hours at ~6 knots. (BTW we were dragging a 9.5 foot inflatable with an 8hp 2-stroke) Later in the afternoon, when we knew we had slack hours, we shut down the Honda and had a great two hours' sail between 4-5 knots to finish out our day. Picked up a mooring (after trying to anchor on a cruddy bottom) in Tenants Harbor. Motored the dinghy a mile to the town dock for a great dinner and to refill the 3 gallon tank (never touched the 5gallon reserve).

Thursday morning, left the hook at 7am, motor sailed with favorable winds until about 3pm (when we knew we'd make portland) at between 6.0 and 7.5 knots. We were moving. Had to refill the 3 gallon tank after 4:15 of wide open throttle. Again, around 2, we shut down the motor and had a glorious sail pretty much straight all the way to Portland. Tied up at the new slip around 5:30 pm.

Got the Origo stove to work, good strong french press coffee, oatmeal, and soup. Lots of apple, cheese, crackers. Beer, rum tonics, and water. Learned a lot about navigating hazards by going through Muscle Ridge Channel and into various harbors. Great nights' sleep in 43� overnights.

It's going to be a great summer!

1979 C25 - Hull #1000

Currently "Phoebe"

panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2015 : 09:21:52

Wow. I have sailed on the schooner Heritage out of Rockland 18 time. All the places you named are familiar to me. I'm thinking of going back this year. That would make 19 trip and every 10th one is free.

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2015 : 10:46:08

quote:
motor sailed with favorable winds until about 3pm (when we knew we'd make portland) at between 6.0 and 7.5 knots.

Sounds like a nice trip with favorable winds and kind currents allowing for a good time on shore and on board

WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2015 : 12:59:44

Sounds like a good trip. A couple of days like that really helps to get familiar with your new s/v. Helps to get things on the 'LIST' and prioritize them. Have fun this summer.

Wesley Allen
"Breaking Wind"
1982 C-25 SR/TR/SK #2773
Hemlock, MI

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2015 : 13:13:39

We hear the stories of all the trips where everything went well, like yours, as well as those where everything went wrong. Regardless of how the trip goes, most of us consider every trip an adventure that we would hate to have missed. The times when we have to struggle are every bit as memorable as the fair winds. But, this was a really good beginning for a new owner!

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2015 : 17:06:09

Bravo! Sounds like what memories are made from. Really nice that conditions were favorable and challenges were easily surmountable.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.