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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Bilge pump install?

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jaydon
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156 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/05/2015 : 19:10:32

Hi all,
I am going to put an auto bilge pump in my boat. I'd like to put it in the center of the salon, under the floor board. I think this would be over the keel. Is there anything there to screw to? I don't want to screw it down if it'll potentially damage something or compromise the integrity of the boat.
Thanks for any help on this.
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

Voyager
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Response Posted - 05/05/2015 : 19:51:12

Jay
Looks like your boat may be a 1985 or 1986 vintage. The hull is thicker than you'd expect. You can either drill out several holes to tap directly to the hull, or you can epoxy in some wood - cedar, mahogany or something that will last awhile. Then you can bolt it to wood that's stuck to the inside of the hull.
Question is, do you have enough room to mount a sizeable enough piece of wood?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

sailorbaz
1st Mate

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Australia
26 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2015 : 22:11:47

I didn't like the idea of drilling into the hull - so fixed the bilge pump to a piece of plastic chopping board which I had predrilled and which just went through the access port near the galley. I screwed it to the vertical stiffener with S/S angle brackets and then fixed the Whale Supersub to that.
Sailorbaz

Sailorbaz
1981 Boomaroo 25, (C25) SK/SR, inboard diesel, Red Robin
South coast, New South Wales, Australia

jaydon
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Response Posted - 05/06/2015 : 03:41:42

Bruce,
I'll have to measure the clearance under the floor board. Some of the pumps, like the Attwood, are fairly low. There seems to be a good amount of clearance.
If I drill at that point, why tap the hole? Would a screw work? I could epoxy a piece of wood, but that would put the pump that much higher. I don't know how much water needs to be there for the pump to activate.
Too many questions? LOL
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

islander
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Response Posted - 05/06/2015 : 05:03:41

What I have done to fix a pump to the hull is to take the basket off the pump and put 4 pea size dollops of 5200 around the bottom edge of the basket then squish it to the hull. No drilling holes and the pump will be as low as possible. The pump can be popped in and out of the basket for cleaning and if you ever had to remove the basket it is easily to cut the 4 spots of 5200 with a razor.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

jaydon
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Response Posted - 05/06/2015 : 06:49:53

Morning
The 5200 option sounds great.
How much prep is required?
For running the overboard hose; I was thinking of enlarging the hole where the Whale hose runs and adding another thru-hull at the transom for the discharge. Sound ok, or maybe someone has a better idea.
I saw someone suggest (on another thread) tapping into the Whale discharge hose; but that hose is pretty thick and cutting it and finding an a "T" adapter seems a bit iffy.
Jay

Jay
South County RI
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islander
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Response Posted - 05/06/2015 : 07:09:44

quote:
How much prep is required?
For running the overboard hose; I was thinking of enlarging the hole where the Whale hose runs and adding another thru-hull at the transom for the discharge. Sound ok, or maybe someone has a better idea.

Jay, Thats the way to do it.Its never a good idea to combine discharge hoses. As to prep if you mean for the 5200 just clean surfaces and maybe scuff the hull a little. Try to have enough 5200 so it squeezes up through the basket grate a little so it gets anchored. You don't need to go crazy, 5200 is very strong. Don't forget to align the basket so when you snap the pump back in the discharge is facing the right direction.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 05/06/2015 07:25:53

jaydon
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Response Posted - 05/06/2015 : 07:34:03

Thanks
Yeah, face the pump discharge aft. Then just follow the Whale hose.
I think getting access to the hull back there may pose a problem. Can I get to the hull by dropping down thru the port side bilge storage in the cockpit? Get in and then under the gas storage?
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

islander
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Response Posted - 05/06/2015 : 08:24:55

Good question. I think you can depending on your size. You might be a little sore the next day. Nothing like cramming yourself into the dumpster.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

glivs
Admiral

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836 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2015 : 17:26:30

I don't know on the '85-'86 but on the '89 access to the discharge outlet is through the aft bulkhead in the quarterberth as is the lower rudder gudgeon. The access hatch may be difficult to remove, however, if the original opening was not exactly square.

Gerry Livingston, Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2015 : 18:39:47

Been there--on my back under the fuel locker. Make sure the hatch can't fall while you're down there--it gets really dark!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Voyager
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Response Posted - 05/06/2015 : 21:05:11

Is it really a good idea to add another through hull opening, even above waterline, since you can get pooped by a following sea. At least I'd consider adding a check valve in line with the hose...

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

jaydon
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Response Posted - 05/07/2015 : 03:30:50

Good morning
Thinking about this, why not put the discharge thru the port side instead of the stern? I've never seen a power boat; small center console on up, with the bilge pump thru the stern.
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
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islander
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Response Posted - 05/07/2015 : 05:50:50

Unlike a powerboat, Sailboats heel so having the discharge on the side of the boat would more than likely go under water when heeled to that side. So instead of keeping water out of the boat it would pour in through the discharge. Putting in a check valve is not recommended in bilge hoses, They can really restrict the water flow.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

jaydon
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Response Posted - 05/10/2015 : 11:47:21

Well, here is my thought on this. I have two options for the discharge.
One in the transom, but way too hard for me to reach.
Not sure I could make it under the gas tank enclosure.
The other is port side, fairly high in the locker under the port cockpit seat.
Plenty of room to work in there.
For the pump, I tried the 5200 and will check tomorrow how it's holding.
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

islander
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Response Posted - 05/10/2015 : 13:32:30

Before putting the discharge on the side there is another choice you have. Disconnect the manual pump hose from the discharge side of the manual pump then connect the electric pump discharge hose with a hose barb to that hose. You can then put a new discharge hose onto the manual pump and coil it up in the dumpster. If you ever need the manual pump just open the dumpster and hang the hose over the side or onto the cockpit floor so the water runs out the scuppers.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Voyager
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Response Posted - 05/10/2015 : 23:05:23

Smart move. No muss no fuss. And if the automatic bilge pump is working so hard you need to help it by manually pumping , your in way deep doo-doo anyway. Good to have the manual as a backup in case the automatic pump goes south.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

jaydon
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Response Posted - 05/11/2015 : 04:08:36

Hi Islander,
I love this. No holes to cut and very little climbing in the 'dumpster'.
By the way, I love the nickname.
Whoever thought that one up should get a prize.
Jay

Jay
South County RI
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#5645
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islander
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Response Posted - 05/11/2015 : 05:40:26

One thing about automatic bilge pumps are that they can mask a serious problem. For example lets say your thru hull develops a crack or the hose and clamp starts to fail and drips water. The pump will keep up with the small leak so when you check the bilge there is the normal amount of water and everything looks normal to you. A few weeks later and the thru hull or hose totally falls apart and now the bilge pump can't keep up with the large amount of water coming in and the boat sinks at the dock. You can't figure why your boat sank because everything looked OK the last time you looked into the bilge. Get the idea? Bilge pumps will never keep up with a serious hole in the boat an are really only intended to take care of rain water etc. As posted on the other bilge pump thread, Most boat sinkings occurred at the dock and usually this was the cause. A routine visual inspection can go a long way in prevention.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 05/11/2015 05:54:49

wanderer13
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 05/11/2015 : 16:38:53

quote:
Originally posted by islander

Before putting the discharge on the side there is another choice you have. Disconnect the manual pump hose from the discharge side of the manual pump then connect the electric pump discharge hose with a hose barb to that hose. You can then put a new discharge hose onto the manual pump and coil it up in the dumpster. If you ever need the manual pump just open the dumpster and hang the hose over the side or onto the cockpit floor so the water runs out the scuppers.

Scott - simple solution and totally logical. I like it!

1981 Catalina 25 FK/TR

jaydon
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156 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2015 : 13:47:15

Here's a new one,
On the boat today and there is NO handle for the whale. I can order one, but can I use a dowel temporarily if need be?
Also, I could find no markings on the pump. I'm pretty sure it is the original pump. Anyone know which pump was original equipment?
Thanks
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

wanderer13
1st Mate

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76 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2015 : 16:59:16

Jay,
A photo would be helpful in identifying what manual pump was installed on your boat. My boat has a Bosworth Guzzler GH-M500. When I inspected the diaphragm, I found it was cracked from dry rot and the pump was unusable, so you might want to consider examining and testing your pump to see if it is also dry rotted. If you do have a Guzzler, Bosworth is still around (a RI company) and sells rebuild kits as well as handles.
James

1981 Catalina 25 FK/TR

islander
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4018 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2015 : 17:27:54

Jay, Here is a thread on the Bilge pumps and how to tell them apart. See if yours looks like these.Rebuild kits are available from Defender.com http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=28088&SearchTerms=manual,bilge,pump,

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

jaydon
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156 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2015 : 17:33:25

Islander
Here's the pump I have. Maybe it will help. Still wondering about a dowel or...

Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

islander
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4018 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2015 : 05:54:16

Our boats are not that far apart in the production numbers so I'm surprised that your pump is a different model unless a PO replaced it but I have the same pump that Ray has in his photo, Yours is more than likely a whale pump and could be a Whale Gusher Urchin, The body's look very similar. This photo of one doesn't have the bulkhead mounting bracket like yours but the body and guts might be the same.Not totally positive though. You can buy a replacement handle or a wooden dowel or copper pipe would work if it fits into the hole.

better with the thru deck mount, Now I'm positive...

Edit... Take a look at model # BP9013 here http://www.downwindmarine.com/Whale-Gusher-Urchin-Manual-Bilge-Pumps-p-91001089.html

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 05/13/2015 07:09:09

jaydon
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Response Posted - 05/13/2015 : 09:40:33

Morning
Looks a lot like the 'thru-deck' model in the picture.
Can I use a dowel for a handle?
Jay

Jay
South County RI
Cat 25 SR/FK/Trad
#5645
Wind Dancer

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