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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Cat 250 rudder retrofit from Catalina-help needed

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Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/13/2014 : 08:17:22

I am most disappointed in the lack of performance with my rudder on my 1998 wing keel tall mast. Have any members requested a retrofit rudder from Catalina? If so, please advise me of procedure and cost. Otherwise I will have to modify the existing rudder as its stearage is terrible! Chief.

Edited by - Chief RA on 11/13/2014 17:21:32

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2014 : 20:13:40

There are three generations of rudders made by Catalina. Assuming your rudder is the original, your 1998 boat probably has first or second generation. The 3rd generation rudder is much better balanced. Do some searching on this site to find pictures of the rudders so you can figure it out.

You should also measure the length of your rudder. Some variants were very short, causing loss of control when heeling. But I thought most of the short rudders shipped with water ballast boats for shallow water capability.

There are also 3rd party suppliers who make them out of starboard. I've seen mixed reviews. Some people love them. Others have had problems with warping, especially if the rudder gets more sunlight on one side than the other.

The numbers that I was hearing for a new rudder were $700-800 plus shipping, but that was ~10 years ago. You'll have to call the factory for a quote.

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Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2014 : 07:23:23

Rick: Have you modified or replaced yours? With the front to back width being so small mine doe not steer well until doing several knots. It is especially bad backing out and turning from the dock. I tried to look in the archives but can't access them. I tried to email Arlyn as I know from reading his past rudder reportss that he is very knowledgable on this subject. Thanks, Chief

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2014 : 08:29:48

My boat has had at least three rudders. The PPO in New England replaced the original one with a 3rd generation rudder. The DPO trucked the boat to New Jersey, and was in a hurry to get it into he water before July 4 weekend, so he demanded that the boat be launched even though it was midday low tide all that week. This grounded and broke the rudder (according to boat yard personnel). He had to wait until October for a replacement to arrive. He put the boat up for sale in November.

Enter "generation rudder" in the Google search box on the left hand of this page. It should get some useful posts for you to read.

Edited by - TakeFive on 11/14/2014 11:36:25

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2014 : 11:12:06

I found this using the Image Search Feature (Login to the Members Area)

<center>

C250WB Rudder version III)
C250WB Rudder version-III
Note the wheel steering bracket (Black)</center>

Paul

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Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2014 : 11:18:12

Thanks Rick I am researching now like you suggested and finding Arlyns stuff now. Chief

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Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2014 : 13:31:39

Rick: Found Arlyns writings on the subject and sounds like the rudder(#3) you found but in the long version for w/k works good. Rather than spend hundreds I may opt to add a leading 4" strip on the front leading edge of my rudder to achieve more neutral steering. At the same time it should steer better at slower speeds with the rudder having mor depth. One of my minors for my Industrial Technology Bachelors is plastics, so do have considerable eeducationand xperience with epoxy construction. I like my boat but hate that rudder!
Thanks much for your help! Chief

Edited by - Chief RA on 11/14/2014 13:38:09

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2014 : 13:55:58

One other option might be to adjust the pintles to cant the rudder forward. That would improve balance, but it would not increase surface area, so not sure it would fully fix your problem (if it could even be accomplished).

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Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2014 : 15:44:59

In my opinion the increased surface area on the rudder is critical for good control of these boats. In fact I will probably put on an extra 6" strip on the front leading edge of my rudder. My last sailboat was a Clipper Marine 26' and she was a great sailor! She had an aftermarket rudder that was 18' front to back and cleared the pavement by about 6" when on the trailor. That rudder was a solid unit, not fold up. I immediately disliked the lack of control this winpy retractable rudder provided! Later, Chief

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TakeFive
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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2014 : 16:11:04

I am surprised that you have a kick-up rudder on a wing keel boat. They're usually used for beaching, and your keel would prevent beaching. I haven't seen may WK boats on trailers, but I expect that they would ride high enough that your rudder wouldn't hit even on the trailer. Or, of you have a tiller, just remove it for trailering.

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Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2014 : 17:11:02

Yes, I was surprised I had a kick up rudder too! I have to remove the rudder for the mast stanchion to fit in gudgeons to trailer. The rudder in about 10" longer than the keel. I pinned the rudder with a dowel and carry spares as it liked to kick back a few inches and even hit my prop once! My boat on the trailer stands 12' from the ground to the parallel mast! I had 6" overhead clearance when I put her in the boathouse shed! You have always been a good online friend and I sure appreciate your help. My boat would not be near as nice as it is without your help! Thanks again! Chief

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.