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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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My GPS is dying UPDATE

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/09/2014 : 12:30:44

My Garmin GPSMap 276C is on it's last legs. In car mode, it will no longer follow maps (although it still knows where it is, it just doesn't update your map location), plus it will no longer turn on/off from the power button, you have to remove the battery, unplug it from the power source, plug it back in (at which point it'll start), then put the battery back in. Lovely.

So, instead of buying a new GPS unit so I can provide data to my VHF/DSC & autopilot, why not use the GPS I already have in Rita's Ipad 2 along with Garmin's charting software (which I've also already purchased), then connect over Bluetooth to some as yet found device to provide the data for DSC & AP?

A bit of searching has turned up lots of Bluetooth GPS devices, but not transmitters(?), emitters(?) or multiplexers(?), that I could connect mechanically to my VHF & AP inputs and over Bluetooth to the Ipad. Does such a device exist? I feel that it must, I just don't know what to call it.

Has anyone done this? Rick? What is the device I'm looking for called?

I know this will be expensive in terms of battery power, but I recently acquired a 16.8AH lithium battery brick that I can power it from while inside a protective plastic pouch, which should give me sufficient power for a whole day's sail. I think.

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Edited by - delliottg on 05/04/2014 14:55:18

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2014 : 20:11:38

You can go with your plan if you want to, but an iPad may not be the best viewing device on a boat. You could get your Garmin refurbished for a very good price like I did. As the legend goes my old GPS MAP76 CSx lost the satellites over time. I talked to Garmin and they issued me an RMA # so I shipped the bad unit to Garmin. 10 days later I had a 100% ok refurb GPS MAP 78s for $80. West Marine currently sells them for $376.00 on sale!!!
My rule is KISS, however, if you have your heart set on a Bluetooth GPS scheme, have at it!

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2014 : 21:08:06

I didn't know Garmin refurbished their units. I'd be quite pleased to have mine functional again as I use it daily in my car too. I also have an investment in data cards, soldering for the DSC & auto pilot, etc. I'll write to them tomorrow about it.

I know that the viewing on an iPad is iffy, but didn't see the value in spending a bunch of money on a new chart plotter if I didn't have to.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2014 : 17:43:14

I have a Dual XGPS that I'd sell cheaply ($40?). All of our current tablets have GPS built in and our boat has a dedicated plotter.

If you want to interface with NMEA I don't think there is any way to justify the iPad as cheaper. For about $500-600 you can get a plotter from Raymarine (A67), Lowrance, or Garmin with GPS, networking, and depth finding all built in. Most NMEA to WiFi interface products run about that much, and don't include a waterproof/sunlight readable display that you'd get on a real plotter.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2014 : 08:10:17

Thanks Alex, but that's not the bit I'm looking for (or at least I don't think so?). Rita's iPad is 3G so it has the GPS chip. What I'm looking for is the as yet unnamed bit that can receive GPS data over Bluetooth and send it out over NMEA/RS232 to my VHF & autopilot. Here's a diagram of what I think I need:

I have everything but the unknown device already.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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1144 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2014 : 13:51:06

Can't you just use a GPS to serial puck like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/GlobalSat-07-BR-355-S4-GPS-Receiver-Black/dp/B00AMAJFUO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1397249286&sr=8-2&keywords=gps+receiver+serial

It would be nice to find a marine quality one that runs off of 12V and is waterproof. That $40 one inside the cabin should do the job though.

This won't use your iPad's GPS to supply GPS signals to the radio, it would just be hard wired into your radio.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4018 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2014 : 14:26:11

Did you try updating drivers/software for the Garmin?http://www.solvusoft.com/en/update/drivers/gps/garmin/gpsmap/276c/model-numbers/

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2014 : 20:09:13

I just have time for a few comments.

Garmin refurb exchange program is only about $100. Might be your most economical option.

I like the Garmin Oregon touchscreen handheld. They've discontinued the versions with built-in marine charts, but they still market them for hiking. If your data cards are Bluechart MicroSD cards, then I'd consider the Oregon 450 (can be found for around $200) and put your cards in that. Don't bother spending extra on any of the "t" models (built-in topo maps) unless you do a lot of hiking.

I also have the Garmin Bluechart iPad software, and it's terrible for sharing data. I think it only shares with full-fledged Garmin chartplotters, not their handhelds. I doubt that you woudl get it to connect with anything via Bluetooth.

In fact, I'm not aware of any iPad software that interfaces via Bluetooth. Everything I've seen for the iPad wants to do Wifi. People tell me "just buy a low-cost WiFi multiplexer," but their definition of "low-cost" is different from mine. I can only find them for $500+, which you might as well spend on a full-fledged chartplotter. The new Windows 8 tablets, however, will do Bluetooth (though software support takes some effort), and there are Android apps that will also bring in Bluetooth GPS signals. But iPad, as usual, wants to do it their way.

I also have misgivings about WiFi for sharing NMEA data because the PC programs I've seen (OpenCPN and PolarCOM) will only make half-duplex data connections by WiFi. Typically, I want full duplex - incoming data from the GPS into the tablet/computer and outgoing route data from the computer to the autopilot. Bluetooth does full duplex nicely via COM port emulation in Windows. WiFi is full duplex (how else would you surf the web?), but the PC software only seems to want to make ingoing or outgoing connections, which makes NMEA interfacing messy. I haven't had time to check this out further, since I'm happy with my Bluetooth system the way it works right now.

I don't like the idea of relying on a handheld GPS or tablet to feed NMEA data to your VHF/DSC radio. That's a critical safety feature, and deserves a dedicated GPS puck hardwired into it. I installed the Garmin 18x LVC, about $60 online. I decided not to mess with the cheap Chinese GPS pucks. It's not waterproof, but it gets perfectly fine reception inside the cabin behind the radio. I have it up above the ceiling liner behind the inspection port. Once that's installed to the radio, you can tap off that line to a laptop, a Bluetooth transmitter, or one of those elusive "low cost WiFi multiplexers."

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2014 : 10:16:55

Thanks for the responses guys. I've updated the GPS to the latest firmware (5.70), which didn't fix anything. The puck would be a good idea if I was just looking to drive my DSC on my VHF, but if I want to do course navigation with my auto-pilot, I need some way to be interactive (my Ipad idea is looking less & less feasible). However, the GPS still works as in it knows where it is, it just doesn't bother to show you on the map. So I can still use it for DSC if I want to although I no longer trust it.

I started going down the path of sending it in, and the support software prompted me to do the firmware update. When I tried much later to go back to that support route, I was unable to find it again. So I'm going to spend some time today to see if I can send it in for repairs.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2014 : 10:31:00

Well, that was easier than I thought. I don't have an RMA yet, but I've got a ticket into the system and they're supposed to contact me w/in 2-3 days. It'd be great to give this unit a new life.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2014 : 20:52:44

So, Garmin has demurred, they no longer have spare parts to fix my 276C.

I asked them to provide me with a list of chart plotters that are compatible with my data cards so I can look for a replacement.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2014 : 05:26:06

This won't be on their list because the Oregon 450 is recently discontinued. You can find it new on Amazon for $200 if you time it right (use camelcamelcamel.com). Other Oregon models are still available, but for higher prices. Website says it takes Bluechart chips:

https://buy.garmin.com/en-CA/CA/on-the-trail/discontinued/oregon-450/prod63349.html

Edti: Since you need new depth too, might be best to find combo chartplotter.

Edited by - TakeFive on 04/15/2014 08:32:55

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2014 : 11:57:58

Thanks Rick, but it takes MicroSD cards, mine are the proprietary Garmin data cards like this:

Edited by - on

TEM58
Navigator

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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2014 : 13:21:14

Would this work?

http://www.amazon.com/Sandisk-MicroSD-MicroSDHC-Adapter-Static/dp/B001GGL7Z4/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1397593161&sr=1-1&keywords=micro+sd+adapter

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2014 : 20:31:05

Tim,
The adapter you linked to won't fit in my Garmin, it takes proprietary cards like the one shown in my previous post.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2014 : 18:41:34

eBay? maybe Craig's List?

Edited by - Voyager on 04/17/2014 18:42:04

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2014 : 14:58:47

As it turns out, there was nothing wrong with my old GPS, well, except maybe a firmware bug. I did some experimentation today with it, and found out that somehow my "Track" settings had gotten changed to "Off", instead of the usual "Wrap" (which causes the GPS to draw a continuous line behind it as your vehicle moves). Since the track was also "Full", it could no longer move the icon that represents your vehicle (that's sort of a guess), so I changed it back to "Wrap", and deleted the track cache, and voila, my map started moving again. I was a couple of days away from replacing it, now I don't have to (I think).

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2014 : 06:30:10

All I can say is don't ever let your track log fill up. On my Oregon 400c I usually export into .gpx a few times a year and clear it out, but last year I did a couple of long cruises and neglected to do that, and I ended up with all sorts of odd things happening when it filled up. Even now, after clearing it out and resetting things, I still get occasional odd glitches where my current.gpx file (where the tracks are stored) gets corrupted. The corruption is easily corrected with a text editor, but it's a pain nonetheless, and the glitch resurfaces occasionally.

My device is a different model from yours, and its behavior is likely different. But it seems that in general, Garmin does not do a good job of handling the errors that occur when the track log fills up.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2014 : 08:04:14

I'd never really worried about it, I just let it wrap, and very occasionally you could see it deleting the tail end of the wrap as you drove (never seen it on the boat). You have to be in proximity of the "end" of the tail to see it moving. I don't know if that made any sense, but I've never even worried about it until just now.

The good news is, on my commute into work this morning, it worked just like it's supposed to. Even went back to it's old behavior of requiring two power-ons to get it into the right epoch (it likes to start up in the 1990's and eventually find a "good" date from just under 20 years ago). A restart always brings it current, but when it was misbehaving I never had to do this. Weird, huh?

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2014 : 19:35:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Even went back to it's old behavior of requiring two power-ons to get it into the right epoch (it likes to start up in the 1990's and eventually find a "good" date from just under 20 years ago). A restart always brings it current, but when it was misbehaving I never had to do this. Weird, huh?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey David,
My 276C does the same thing, it takes 2 power ups to get the current date. First one pulls up 1999.

Edited by - on

C250 Editor
1st Mate

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USA
32 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2014 : 07:30:31

Yeah, mine always starts on Dec 31, 1999, then finds a date in 1994 that it likes if I forget to power cycle it.

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