Association Forum

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Cleats

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Captmorgan
Navigator

Member Avatar

USA
220 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/01/2013 : 17:24:39

I have had my boat tied up at the marina for about 4 mos now. I notices my cleats are becoming loose. Is this typical. Are all cleats mounted the same do people modifiy how they are mounted?

If they are loosening could I be tieing too to tight. I have been using 8 lines 4 at the bow and four at the stern. The stern lines are on separate cleats. those are the ones loosening.

John

"The Gal-Way" 1985 SR/SK Barnegat Bay, NJ

Enjoy Sailing =) Be Safe

Happy Sailing - John

Photo Album

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2013 : 17:32:43

I don't know if they're too tight but, I have only a single line on each cleat. I have 2 lines at the bow, one portside one starboard. I have a cleat aft on the starboard side and a mid-ship cleat that holds my spring line. I suspect that you're forcing too much line around the horns of the cleats.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2013 : 17:35:16

Possibly.

I usually try to leave a about 1-1/2 turns around the dock cleat of slack so the boat is not constantly pulling against the cleats every few seconds. In other words if I were to pull the boat snug it would take an additional 1-1/2 wraps around the dock cleat.

I usually stand and watch the boat adjust itself on the dock lines in the slip for about 5 minutes to make sure the slack is appropriate. Not too much or too little.

Edited by - on

Captmorgan
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
220 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2013 : 17:54:16

This is possible. I have been cutting down. I was nervous at first.

The lines I have for tyingit if are also heavy. 5/8 is that normal.

John

Are they usually bolted or screwed in. I tried to tigten and they did not so Im hope its a bolt on the underside of the locker.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I don't know if they're too tight but, I have only a single line on each cleat. I have 2 lines at the bow, one portside one starboard. I have a cleat aft on the starboard side and a mid-ship cleat that holds my spring line. I suspect that you're forcing too much line around the horns of the cleats.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2013 : 18:16:18

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2013 : 18:34:00

The cleats on the boat are loose, or the cleats on the dock are loose?

If the cleats on the boat are loose then you want to fix that immediately. They are bolted through a plywood core, and it will rot out if it becomes damp.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5231 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2013 : 18:40:25

On the boat end of my line, I use the spliced eye end of the line. I slip the loop through the cleat body and loop the loop around the horns of the cleat. One line per cleat.
I use the single center cleat for my 2 spring lines to the fore and aft dock cleats.

When I come back to the boat, she's always right where I left her. If memory serves, I might be using 1/2" line. So far so good this season, but I'm in a protected harbor with little current. In my old slip on the river where I saw 4kt currents and river chop, I used thicker lines.

If they predict a big blow, then I break out the 5/8" stuff. Harder to work with and I usually double the 1/2" lines with the 5/8" stuff. I leave the 1/2" lines reasonably taut (maybe 1-2" slack), and leave the 5/8" line more slack, so if the thin line chafes through, the 5/8 will not have seen any strain until that time.

If my cleat got loose, I'd be concerned about:
1. Bent bolts
2. Chewing out the backing materials for the cleat hardware
3. Wearing through of the mounting bolt holes in the hull deck joint.
I'd remove the cleats completely and double check the whole thing. If the holes were widening out, I'd fill the holes with epoxy and drill out the mounting holes anew.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2013 : 20:22:35

For this size boat, I'd recommend nothing larger than 1/2" dock lines. I use twisted nylon rather than braid, for shock absorbance. On my 27' powerboat, I use 3/8" lines. The boat generally has a foot or more to move in any direction, depending on the tide. (Two lines are from a fixed piling--all others from floating docks.)

Do you have spring-lines in your setup? If not, the forces on your "breast lines" from fore-and-aft movement might be too great. Check your Chapman's Piloting about spring-lines. They are required components of a permanent docking set-up that allows the boat to move a little on the lines. (And Chapman's is a required reference for owners of boats like ours.) The "center cleats" Voyager refers to are cleats I bought and mounted to the genoa tracks on that boat (which I used to own). But spring-lines can go all the way forward or aft from dock cleats to the standard cleats on your boat.

Loose deck cleats should be removed, and the deck core checked for moisture or rot. (Water has been finding its way in there.) If the core is solid, the cleats should be re-bedded with polysulfide caulk, hand-tighten, left to set for several days, and then tightened from below while somebody holds the bolts from moving above.

If there's water damage in the core (mush below the fiberglass on the deck), check back with us--that's a whole nuther issue, but not one that can't be fixed.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/01/2013 20:27:40

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3474 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2013 : 04:33:25

Loose cleats are a reality for most of us after a bad storm.. seems to happen to me about every 7 years. I've left one cleat loose and the screws bent and were then difficult to remove.

I remove the nuts on the bolts on the cleats, often using release spray on the screws and channel locks on the nuts as I unscrew the screws.

Drill out the holes a little and tape up the bottom. I fill with Gflex or a fiberglass resin. Drill out one of the holes, and add your cleat and drop in the screw and then use the other hole in the cleat as a guide for the second drilling.

Then remove everything and bed with polysulfide as indicated previously.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2013 : 04:53:02

One of the best upgrades I have done to the boat is replace the stock cleats. IMO, they are too small for this size boat.

Took out these:

And replaced them with these:

Each has four bolts instead of two, and wrapping more than one line is now possible. Was a fairly easy modification.

Edited by - Davy J on 09/02/2013 04:55:15

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2013 : 07:27:19

I also have those cleats--far superior. The 4-bolt base is undoubtedly more resistant to sideways shocks, as you often get from dock lines. For multiple lines (like spring and breast), I drop the loop from the first one onto the cleat, and then feed the second loop through the throat, up, and around the horns to lock both lines.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3474 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2013 : 04:19:34

<< far superior >> ( 4 hole mounting cleats )

The OEM cleats are designed to be less apt to get lines hung on them, and easier to pull out in a storm with less damage to the deck. Kinda like the issue with adding backing blocks.. they work better but if they do pull out you have a real mess on the deck.. more structural damage.

Not that they are not an improvement .. just be aware of the options.

I went with two more cleats of the same design on both sides of the boat, and added more lines ( and snubbers ) ... more expense. Those snubbers will cost ya, but they really help with stress on the cleats.

Edited by - on

Captmorgan
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
220 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2013 : 17:43:10

These are all excellent suggestions I didn't get an email letting me know these responses were here. I just searched on cleats and found them. I think I will

1) reduce line size to 1/2 inch

2) Upgrade cleat size . I like those shown by Davy J.

3) change the set up to have the proper spacing on spring lines.

Question do you put some type of sealer under them to prevent drip and rot;

Edited by - on

Captmorgan
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
220 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2013 : 17:46:05

Edited by - on

Captmorgan
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
220 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2013 : 18:12:22

http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2013/April/how-to-pick-the-right-sealant.asp

Found this which also suggest polysulphide. Thanks

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

Members Avatar

844 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2013 : 10:54:50

Over sizing dock lines is not necessarily a good thing, because larger lines tend to stretch less, and stretch is what is required, to some degree. The West Marine Advisors have a good discussion about sizing dock lines and why.

If you're gonna spend the time to rebed/replace your cleats, don't use polysulfide, use butyl tape, you'll never have to worry about leaks ever again. http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=117172

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2013 : 17:30:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stu Jackson C34
 Over sizing dock lines is not necessarily a good thing, because larger lines tend to stretch less, and stretch is what is required, to some degree. The West Marine Advisors have a good discussion about sizing dock lines and why.

If you're gonna spend the time to rebed/replace your cleats, don't use polysulfide, use butyl tape, you'll never have to worry about leaks ever again. http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=117172
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Good advice from Stu! 3/8" dock lines are a good size for a C25, and I double my docklines for a major storm, such as a hurricane; i.e. put a second 3/8" line on each cleat, and adjust them so that one is slightly more taut, and it takes all the load until it breaks, and then the other one takes the load. A properly sized dock line is unlikley to break due to an excessive load. It's more likely to break due to chafe. In a major storm, dock lines will sometimes chafe where they never chafed before. I had a nearly new dock line chafe in a hurricane by rubbing against the head of a small screw. In the 23 years I owned my C25, I never had a 3/8" dock line break.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2013 : 19:14:36

I agree--3/8" is about right, especially with larger open-throat cleats, bow and stern. Without those cleats, 5/16" might be better for allowing two lines on an original cleat (one locking the other). I don't get what lines would be "hung" on these cleats mounted at the bow and stern. Maybe a lower-profile cleat makes sense as a midship cleat on the genoa track, but those aren't generally that much less lower-profile.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/06/2013 19:15:18

Captmorgan
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
220 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2013 : 19:21:24

Well the cleat is fixed . I used the Polyether rather than the poly sulfide because the small Boatlife caulk didnt say polysulfphide I think it was but it also took longer to cure. Only the really big Boat life caulk tube said polysulfide and I didnt need that much. It was easy and there was no rot under the cleat. Thanks for the tip. I took it out cleaned up and down surfaces and the cleat then used the 3 M polyether Marine 4000 adhesive and sealant. Heres a link

http://www.zorotools.com/g/00052245/k-G0397677?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA

It was easy to work with and its both an adhesive and a sealant.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.