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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Looking at a Catalina 25 and NEED advice.

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lrjetav8r
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/30/2013 : 17:44:46

We are going to go look at a Catalina 25 this weekend and was wondering if anyone could give some advice as to what to look for. It is a 1979 swing keel with a yanmar diesel engine. I have little experience with sailing and none with the Catalina, nor a swing keel or yanmar diesel. Any advice would be very appreciated!

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2013 : 17:58:24

Get a copy of Don Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" Good luck.

The swing keel is commonplace and there are hundreds of threads about the plusses and minuses. The Yanmar is pretty rare in a Catalina 25. I'd be very attentive to a 35 year old diesel motor when most of these boats have little 9hp outboards.

Edited by - John Russell on 07/30/2013 18:00:21

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2013 : 18:36:10

Decks, rigging, sails, hull (especially around the keel pivot), electrical, engine,... mostly pretty generic stuff, with the exception of the keel. It's a relatively simple boat, except the inboard diesel is "unusual" on this model.

I doubt that the Yanmar is original--from all I've seen, Catalina used Universals back then, but not many. Somebody probably re-powered her. But for inland lakes, a diesel inboard is a significant complication over what John points out--that most C-25s are powered by outboards on adjustable transom brackets. The swing keel (1500# of cast iron) is somewhat of a complication over the other keels offered on the C-25: the 4' draft fixed fin, and the 3' draft wing that was available in later years. The swing keel requires some periodic maintenance--at least once every "few" years in fresh water. (I'll leave the number to others.)

Two recommendations:

1. Look at other boats, including other C-25s, and get out on them if possible. This one is a little "unusual" in a couple of ways, and is not exactly a spring chicken. Never buy the first boat you see. Every used boat is a relative collection of issues (as are most new boats)--make sure you have some perspective based on several boats.

2. If after you see this one (or something else like it) you want to make an offer, make it subject to a satisfactory survey by a professional marine surveyor. It'll cost you something like $400, but you'll learn a lot, possibly including some things that will lead you to amend your offer or walk away. (Even having walked away, some people have called the $350-400 the best investment they made on a boat--since it kept them from making a big mistake.)

You're buying some systems and complications you might not be familiar with, but once you know what you're getting into, it can be a great adventure.

What are your plans for learning more about sailing?

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/30/2013 18:36:56

panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2013 : 18:45:50

Did they put inboard in in 79? I thought 86 was the first year for inboards.

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lrjetav8r
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2013 : 20:41:19

Thanks for all of the information. The owner knows nothing about the boat. He is not a sailor and took the boat in for a debt. He says there is no blisters on the hull or soft spots on the deck. The engine runs good. The only apparent thing wrong with the boat is that the rudder is cracked. I have read alot on the forum about that. He wants $1500.00 for the boat and trailer. And Dave, I intend to attend sailing school (or at least my wife says I am before she will go sailing with me). I am a professional pilot so I have the weather and navigation pretty well inhand already. I did own and sail a 26' Kenner Privateer Ketch Rig for 3 years.

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lrjetav8r
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2013 : 20:42:06

I'm still not sure if everyone thinks the diesel motor is a good thing or not. ?????

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 04:33:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lrjetav8r
 I'm still not sure if everyone thinks the diesel motor is a good thing or not. ?????
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It depends on how you intend to use the boat, and, of course, the condition of the engine. For a cruiser, a good inboard diesel engine is a joy. When the going gets rough, the prop won't lift out of the water and cavitate, like an outboard. The diesel engine will have an electric starter and an alternator that will recharge your batteries. An outboard probably won't. You can use it to recharge your cellphone and other small electronics. If it needs repair, a diesel can be expensive, because it can't be easily removed from the boat to work on it, like an outboard. The mechanical and electrical systems associated with an inboard engine are somewhat more complicated than an outboard engine. If you intend to race the boat, an inboard engine will make it uncompetitive, because of the drag caused by the prop. PHRF gives a time allowance to compensate for it, but it won't be enough to make it competitive. The bottom line, however, is that, if the diesel engine goes sour, you can just pull it out of the boat and mount an outboard engine on it, instead of spending big boat bucks to repair it. If the boat is structurally sound, that price will be hard to beat. A good trailer alone will sell for $1500.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 07/31/2013 04:35:09

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 05:17:01

Take lots of photos. Everyone here loves to dissect the usefulness or uselessness of PO modifications.....

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 05:52:45

Hey my boat's prior owner did all the stuff I couldn't be bothered with, so I am good with that (example: recovering cushions, lacquering every piece of wood, painting the trailer)... all stuff I hate. I am good with my PO. Just wish he had painted the hull and bottom then I would have been bored all winter.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 06:48:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 The diesel engine will have an electric starter and an alternator that will recharge your batteries. An outboard probably won't.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'd reword that to "might not." My Honda 8 started like a car and put out 12 amps.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...I intend to attend sailing school (or at least my wife says I am before she will go sailing with me). I am a professional pilot so I have the weather and navigation pretty well inhand already. I did own and sail a 26' Kenner Privateer Ketch Rig for 3 years.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Sounds like you understated your experience...

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hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 07:40:41

I have one with a Universal diesel and like it. I do not race it. I just finished having the engine rebuilt and have it installed in the boat. That is a major operation on the small Catalina. I still have some work to complete before I can go sailing. I could have installed an outboard for about half of the cost to redo the diesel and a lot less work. I like the fact that I can push a button and charge the batteries quickly, leave the dock etc. Also, I prefer the looks of the boat without the engine hanging off the back. Down side-the diesel is noisy, more expensive to maintain and you loose some storage space below. Depends on what works for you. It is important that you get a good solid hull to work with.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 07:44:48

I see that you list Utica, KY as your location, which is about 40 miles from Kentucky Lake. Do you plan to sail the prospective boat on Kentucky Lake? It's a BIG reservoir!!! One of our previous C25 owners bought a C42 for that lake!

Our usual advice on this Forum often concludes with the fact that you may be buying a boat with $10000 up front or at a lower price with repairs, refitting, and modifications that add up to $10000 anyway. Good luck, av8r!

Edited by - on

lrjetav8r
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 16:57:48

I want to thank everyone again for all of your information. We had the Kenner on Kentucky Lake for about a year but is still about an hour and a half drive there. It is a great lake, there is something like 700 sailboats based there. I only sailed the Kenner about a dozen times (It took all hands and the cook to rig it) and I decided to get something easier and faster to rig. From what I have read on here, the Catalina 25 can be set up fairly quickly with an A frame. Is this everyone else's opinion?

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 17:07:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lrjetav8r
 From what I have read on here, the Catalina 25 can be set up fairly quickly with an A frame. Is this everyone else's opinion?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Guess it depends on your definition of quick. Everytime you do it, you get the process down a little better.

Edited by - OJ on 07/31/2013 17:55:50

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 17:14:48

Depends on whether you have a furler or not and how much help you have! The A-Frame definitely makes it much easier. Several of us have done it single-handed several times.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 18:25:35

If you are going to be rigging/de-rigging on a regular basis, the A=frame will be invaluable. Easy to make, too. Feel free to call me for step-by step to build one. Took less than an hour after buying the supplies.
6-1-5-4-3-0-1-4-9-6.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 19:34:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lrjetav8r
 I want to thank everyone again for all of your information. We had the Kenner on Kentucky Lake for about a year but is still about an hour and a half drive there. It is a great lake, there is something like 700 sailboats based there. I only sailed the Kenner about a dozen times (It took all hands and the cook to rig it) and I decided to get something easier and faster to rig. From what I have read on here, the Catalina 25 can be set up fairly quickly with an A frame. Is this everyone else's opinion?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Don't confuse a boat that can be transported on a trailer with a trailer sailor. The C25 is not, IMO, a trailer sailor. A C22 might be.

Edited by - John Russell on 07/31/2013 19:36:20

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2013 : 20:26:07

What kind of sailing do you plan to do? If your plans are daysailing on a KY lake, that's one thing... If you're thinking of overnights or longer stays on the boat, that's another.

I ask because, with a few highly-practiced exceptions, reports here have been that rigging the C-25 on the trailer takes well over an hour, and de-rigging about the same. I can't claim personal knowledge--my C-25 was rigged and derigged once a year, with a crane. But I know from working on the mast when it was down, that it was a hunk!

By comparison, many boats 23' and under (like the C-22) are considerably easier and quicker to rig, and therefore more suitable to (and designed for) "trailer-sailing". The C-22 has a bigger cockpit than the C-25, but of course a smaller cabin--sitting headroom and essentially overnight accommodations for two. And the tow vehicles required are quite different. People here have owned both--some moving up and at least a couple moving down. (Read through [url="http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25156&whichpage=1"]this thread[/url].)

If your objective is trailer-sailing (launching and retrieving each day out), I'd suggest the C-25 might not live up to your hopes. If each day includes 2-3 hours (maybe more) of set-up and take-down in addition to your drive, are you still having fun? Maybe you should ask for a demonstration. (I don't mean a Youtube video.)

Some do it--most don't.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/31/2013 20:36:41

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2013 : 16:18:05

Jet Aviator, I PMed you about this boat because I think I might know which one you're considering. BTW, I'm not interested in it or the trailer.

Let me know if it is the boat you are considering. If so, I'll send you a link with more info on it, which may steer you away from the boat. Although if the trailer is in good condition, it may be worth it just for the trailer as others have said. At least I can give you more background info to have when going to look at it.

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lrjetav8r
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2013 : 17:37:26

seth, I either didn't get a pm from you or I don't know how to find it..lol...where was the boat you thought I was interested in?

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lrjetav8r
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2013 : 17:38:59

try sending me an email.

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lrjetav8r
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2013 : 17:41:30

Found it Seth and answered you.

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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2013 : 09:23:39

Replied to your reply - let me know if not received.

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