Association Forum - Crack in fiberglass under seat. Please advise.

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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Crack in fiberglass under seat. Please advise.

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wingnut
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/01/2012 : 08:09:17

I'm considering the purchase of a 78 model with a swing keel. During my inspection, I looked into the storage compartment under the forward bench seat (you would sit facing the stern). Looking into the opening towards the mast support, I noticed a vertical crack where the fiberglass seems to wrap around one corner of the mast support.

The owner dismissed it as a cosmetic issue that was there when he purchased the boat some half score years ago. I was inclined to believe him since he had invited me to look under the seat and seemed unconcerned that I would find anything. In fact, I like the boat otherwise so I put down a deposit and committed to the purchase pending a bottom inspection. Since then, that crack has been tickling the back of my head.

I realize how hard it is to judge these things without a picture. I tried to take snapshot with my phone but I guess the lighting was insufficient and it didn't come out. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2012 : 09:14:51

The biggest risk when buying a swing keel is the keel lifing mechanism. Should that fail, significant, maybe catastrophic, damage can occur at the forward end of the keel trunk. So, any damage in this area would cause some concern. That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy the boat but, it does mean that you should make further inspection of that crack. Any evidence of water coming in through it? Can you tell how deep it is? Ask the owner when was the last time he/she replaced (or at least inspected) the keel lifting mechanism. This could give you clues as to what to look at when the boat is in the air for a bottom inspection. Make note of where the crack is inside the boat and look at corresponding areas underneath.

The standard recommendation here is to have a boat surveyed by a professional prior to final purchase agreement. Depending where you are, this might cost $400-$500. Given the age of the boat and the probable low cost, this may or may not be a reasonable expense. However, a professional survey on a boat of this vintage could save you from purchasing a hull that somebody is trying to dispose of by having someone else haul it to the dump. I'm not suggesting that is the case here. There are a lot of C25s of that vintage still serving their crews well.

Again, at the very least, you need to assure yourself that the keel lifting equipment has been maintained. Even then, after you buy the boat, plan on replacing the key components ASAP. That's especially true if the boat is in salt water.

Let us know what you decide.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2012 : 16:07:30

You really need several good photos. It sounds like it may be OK by description, but that is not an endorsement. Any evidence of water around the "crack"? Follow John's advice. If the age of the cable cannot be verified as no more than 2 years in saltwater or less than 4 in fresh, replace it. If the cable attaches to an eyebolt in the keel, replace it with CD's attachment system. The pivot assembly might need attention, but timing for that usually elective.

edit: My marina charges less for a rigger to make up a cable than CD 's price.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 07/01/2012 16:09:40

wingnut
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2012 : 19:39:38

There's no evidence of water around the crack but the bilge was not completely dry either. Some water was visible closer to the center of the boat. Given that the boat is kept in the water, I was not surprised to find that it was not completely dry. Am I mistaken? Now that I think of it, the owner did mention a new electric bilge pump... Is this unusual?

As for the crack. Is it safe to say that, if the bottom of the hull looks clean then it's probably not an issue?

The lifting hardware for the keel looked fine. The cable looked new and the owner mentioned having serviced it regularly.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2012 : 00:10:32

There should be no water in the bilge otherwise there is some minor leak - windows, stanchions, thru-deck bolts, thru-hulls.

From my experience in heavy rains the water from the pop-top and companion hatch does not collect in the bilge.

You can also check for wet places on the cushion when you rinse down the boat with a few buckets of water.

PS: My previous owner argued that water in the bilge I can see (around a liter), is from the condensation. Do not repeat my mistake. Boat should be bone dry.
I then spent many days during a rainy days checking for the drips from almost every bolt in the deck.
But if the price for this boat is low and you have some spare time its all fixable.
Since I resealed all this issues, my bilge is sober for almost two years now :-)

Edited by - Tomas Kruska on 07/02/2012 00:21:13

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2012 : 03:57:21

Ditto. The bilge should be dry. One real easy test is with paper towels. If the current owner will let you, get what water there is out of the bilge using sponge and bucket, wet/dry shop vac, whatever. Dry with paper towels. Then place fresh, dry paper towels next to the crack and in the bilge. If they are still dry a few minutes later, that's good. Check for streaks on the "walls" under the windows and stanchions, also in the storage areas under the settees.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2012 : 07:15:36

Second John's advice. Even if $400 or so is a big chunk of the purchase price, an accredited marine surveyor will do things like check for moisture in the plywood deck core (requires a meter), check the wiring (often embellished on incorrectly by owners), inspect the keel system and standing rigging, examine that crack, look for other signs of trouble around the keel trunk or water intrusion from above....... You can observe, ask questions, and take notes. From all of that, you'll have a much better picture of the things that need attention and their relative priorities. If your insurer requires a survey on a boat this old (some do)--you might as well have it work for you on the purchase, too. Standard procedure when buying through a broker is to make an offer that's contingent on a "relatively clean" survey, with the potential for negotiation after that. Every once in a while, the survey causes a buyer to walk away... in which case it was probably the best money they ever spent on a boat.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/02/2012 07:18:14

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2012 : 11:52:50

Taste the water in the bilge. Is it salty? If so, it didn't come from rain.

A boat of this vintage probably has a few leaks through stanchions, windows, companionway, etc. You might ask about the last time any of these were re-bedded.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2012 : 12:21:41

John is right. A 34 year old boat (same as mine) probably is leaking water around the windows. This water seeps down through the inner and outer cabin surfaces into the bilge. Dry the bilge and give the windows a thorough rinse with a hose. Then check the bilge. A leaking hull will fill the bilge with water until the bilge water level equals the outside water level so I doubt a small amount of water in the bilge would equate to a hull breach.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2012 : 06:48:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 ...A leaking hull will fill the bilge with water until the bilge water level equals the outside water level...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...which, in a boat like the C-25, is when the boat has completely sunk.

However, most of us have lived with or dealt with rain water migrating to the bilge or other low spots in our C-25s. It can come from as far as the cockpit scuppers or the anchor locker. The cabin windows are a common source that can be re-sealed.

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wingnut
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2012 : 10:28:20

Thanks for the input. I probably should have done more research but I went ahead and bought the boat based mostly on the price and the number of extras that could be parted out in a worst case scenario.

I've since determined that the crack in question does not intrude into the keel trunk nor does it appear to extend to the outer hull. It seems to be limited to the fiberglass skirt that wraps around the base of the mast support post.

The previous owner claims to have sailed it for years with this crack so I'm not going to fuss with it for now. I can post some pictures if anyone is interested. In the mean time, I will create new threads for all the other questions I have...

Edited by - on

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.